Yoshida' stance on PL and why it is less than ideal.

[Betelgeuzah]

Progressing levels allows you to unlock milestones- so you have things to look forward to. That's not "just experience".

[Rinsui]

Honestly people, if you want these threads to actually progress in discussion stop being pedantic and facetious (can't believe how many times I have used those words in the last 3 threads on this pointless topic).

If you want to discuss it, stop the crap and be direct, because all you are doing is tiring the conversation.

Ayayay. Seems like you actually have no real answer to that question...

[Vahzl]

Ayayay. Seems like you actually have no real answer to that question...

I answered your facetious question directly. If you have further to ask, expand on it.

[ViolentDjango]

You're the type of person who would ride a supersport bike in race regulation without any prior riding experience aren't you?

You're the kind of person who makes ridiculous real-world analogies to try and refute viable assessments of game design, aren't you?

Final Fantasy XI was never a game designed around any amount of extreme complexity, and FFXIV is even simpler. You can't try to compare glorified number crunching and dice rolling to activities that require physical prowess and experience. This analogy would be less ridiculous if we were talking about a game like Monster Hunter or Dark/Demon Souls, where developing a feel for the games mechanics through experience was important -- but its not. Its an incredibly flashy D20 game, like all RPGs are. When you can stand in front of a creature, swing, and miss with an axe while standing right next to a creature you're playing a numbers game, not one that requires any amount of acquired prowess.

Sure it helps, but its something you can learn through research -- none of the best MMO players rely completely on "Well this cooldown -feels- like it'll be up in 2 seconds." No, people who play MMOs and games like LoL and who are serious about it can quote you specific damage numbers and cooldown times for abilities, as well as how they change -- because that's the stuff you use in end game.

And all of that can be researched.

No, I'm not the "type of person" you're referring to. I'm the "type of person" who doesn't care about things that have no effect on his gaming experience -- and other people's level don't effect me at all. I've restarted my character after every major update in order to re-experience the leveling system and its changes, because I enjoy leveling up in well designed, interesting gameplay systems. If your game is fun to play, you don't have to worry about people trying to rush through it. Some people WILL, because that's how some people are -- just like how some people think they are smart enough to be wise asses but really aren't -- but at the end of the day the only people who need to be worried about PL's long term effect on the game are the Developers, and if they are paranoid about it they are the ones in power to do something about it.

Mindlessly berating people for things that have no effect on you and pretending you have a real point outside of "Well, they are ruining the experience for themselves" <-- Read: The only real concern any non-PL player should have about people PL'ing, isn't going to change the fact that the only people who's opinion really matters about the issue is the Development teams.

And since they already said they want to slow people's leveling down, (Note, they want to slow down the time frame for leveling, not remove Power Leveling, as Yoshida expressed wanting friends to be able to work together regardless of level) I don't see why people feel so compelled to pressure this issue.

EDIT:

My only problem with people calling this a problem is that they are muddling the issue. No one gives a damn if you think PL'ers are cheating -- they aren't. The real reason PL'ing could be a problem is a substantial, worthwhile one, and most of my posts have been restating over and over what the REAL issue here is.

The problem with these forums is that people keep muddling real, substantial explanations for problems with their own personal opinion. You can have an opinion, and I'll respect it, but the simple fact is that Power leveling is not a danger to players other than those who get power leveled, and the only people who need to be concerned with that are the Devs, because it is a function of their design and ability to keep people playing the game.

But sure, let's muddle the issue more. I'm starting to like how silly this all is.

[Payadopa]

I must admit, this kind of PLing seems a bit over the top to me. I'd prefer a level synch over it, to be honest.

I was in a EXP party a few days back and we had so much fun with linking and exp chains but the last few minutes, to speed up the exp gain for a member who had to go the next few minutes, one member turned into a lvl 50 whatever and we still got 500+ exp within mere seconds (rest of us was 35+). With no effort. No challenge. I don't like this mindset. I want my content callenging. Rushing through is boring.

Even grind content should offer fun. If you can't do it and offer people to legally just rush through to 'the better stuff' then there is something wrong with the way the game is designed, I'm sorry.

[Level synch], [can I have it?]

[Nakiamiie]

I do not agree with Betelgeuzah. First, only a small portion of people have access to PL friends to do the job for them from rank 1 to 50 (or whatever ranks). Second, there are so many classes out there (and you can't PL Disciplines of the Hand and Land), I really doubt someone will have all it's classes PL to rank 50. Yes, having one class brought up to rank 50 by PL is happening and just like Yoshi-P said: it's to have friends play together. It has always been a problem for me in FFXI, I was always 20 or 30 levels lower than my friends and could never come with them. They had to level sync down with me and since I took ages to level up... I never actually saw rank 50 in FFXI. Not everyone is a hardcore gamer and I'd really like to see endgame in FFXIV with my casual play time. More than that, I want to enjoy endgame with my friends.

In the case I get a PL, it will most likely be for 1 class only for when I want to play with my friends. I do want to level up my other classes myself, combined with Disciplines of the Land and Hand I also have to level up, having 1 class to level 50 is absolutely not breaking my game experience or making low/mid-level content useless. Quite the contrary!

That said, I'm really glad the devs had the boldness to do what they with the claiming system to allow PL and have friends enjoy content together. It's a game, it's for entertainment. I don't want it to become another job if I have to put all my game hours into a single thing to be able to catch with my hardcore friends -- so, PL is fine.

[Esk]

I still don't get why People want to Spend hours Grinding Mobs over and over..

I'd rather see them put lots of work into a huge amount of content and story..

[Travesty]

Do people understand that if you mostly remove leveling from an RPG, what you're left with is an Adventure game? Leveling is an integral part of RPGs. Without it, they don't fit the genre. Almost every game has progression of whatever thing or person you're playing, but games in the RPG genre are very specific about what form that progression primarily takes, and that is defined levels. Having a way that those are bypassed so easily really threatens to knock the game out of the genre.

[mmccoy]

Content =/= Grinding. Experience Low Level CONTENT? Mid-Level Content? What stops them from going back and doing the quest anyway? Why does everyone who argues against PL WANT people to grind? Because you did for 6 months? Get over yourself. Grinding =\= CONTENT! If this was WoW (and you better believe we are comparing, we are always comparing) I invite a friend (most likely RL) and we link our accounts and blast through the levels. If this was rift I would invite a friend and again blast through the levels. I run low level characters for my bro all the time through instances. He does the same for me. We enjoy the REAL Content together. I honestly can't see how this is a big deal for you antagonist.

If this was any other MMO this would be a non issue. There isn't much difference and I can't understand why THIS player base has such an issue with THIS of all things. Why not complain about something that matters, like the LACK of DRIVING content. Stuff that keeps you going. Storyline that sends you from place to place. Has you doing REAL stuff. This game so far is an empty shell. There is no content to be missed from PL.


*Edit* There is only one thing that will solve this PL problem. Instead of making exp gain and leveling Grind based, make it quest based. Setup up the game to have quest hubs and greater storyline questing. This is something wow perfected and every other mmo KNOWS this. This is how Rift does it, this is how SWTOR does it. This is how every MMO out there does it. They don't do this for no reason. It sets EXP gain dependent on quest and story progression. Grinding is an archaic form of leveling that simply doesn't work. So you can argue for or against PL all you want, it doesn't make a bit of difference guys. The game is inert.

[ViolentDjango]

Do people understand that if you mostly remove leveling from an RPG, what you're left with is an Adventure game? Leveling is an integral part of RPGs. Without it, they don't fit the genre. Almost every game has progression of whatever thing or person you're playing, but games in the RPG genre are very specific about what form that progression primarily takes, and that is defined levels. Having a way that those are bypassed so easily really threatens to knock the game out of the genre.

RPGs are about progression and development -- leveling isn't the only way to achieve that. Its possible to have an RPG without any sort of distinguishable leveling or experience system that works perfectly, developers use find it easier to develop and balance level-based systems in MMOs.

The only prerequisite of an RPG is that the player be able to develop and progress in some way, fashion, or form. No one wants to remove the leveling system, however, even as it exists currently FFXIV could maintain its current leveling pace and still offer mindful plays a variety of tasks to develop their character further even after hitting level cap.

Spiritbonding gear, leveling crafts, harvesting materials for crafting superior weaponry, defeating bosses to acquire better gear or materials for higher tier equipment or materia -- these are are ways which characters can seek to develop themselves and progress farther into the games world.

Exploring new areas and dungeons, defeating new enemies, finding new areas and items -- these are also ways, completely independent of a need for a level system, in which players can seek to develop their characters.

We've just been trained to expect that leveling up is the end-all, be-all of character development and progression so people are blinding themselves to the fact that the game already presents you with tons of different alternatives that make leveling a combat class quickly a completely irrelevant issue. For people who want to be the best at the game, there are still crafts to be level, materia to be forged, gear to be augmented, and bosses to be defeated -- and more content as such will be added.

The leveling system, as I have said multiple times, is just a crutch to funnel the player base through a specific development time frame. It does nothing for YOU as a player, its for the Development team -- it always has been. That's why MMOs make characters level so slowly, typically, because it allows them more time to develop content while you grind out levels towards mid-level content.

And that's perfectly fine if you enjoy it -- its there for you to do still.

However, there is plenty to do for people who don't want to strictly and slowly level combat classes. Frankly, my original plan was to not bother with any of the combat content in the game and focus on building an economic empire -- there are players who are going to focus on that, and that will afford them significant amounts of content and development regardless of how many combat classes they level or how quickly they do it.

You can't discount that there is more to an RPG than leveling nor that the leveling system is almost always the least significant or interesting component of any RPG.