FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Will Red Mage be just like astrologian? A fusion between SMN & Blm.

[Jonnycbad]

Final Fantasy Dimensions didn't have Mystic Knight or Rune Fencer but it had Red Mage with Spellblade, which had the skills you'd associate with the former. Ensorcelling your sword similar to how NIN does with poisons to modify the additional effects of your oGCDs could be neat for RDM and I sincerely hope they add the Enspells to RDM considering they're in the game and many, many mobs use them already.

[ADVSS]

Final Fantasy Dimensions didn't have Mystic Knight or Rune Fencer but it had Red Mage with Spellblade, which had the skills you'd associate with the former. Ensorcelling your sword similar to how NIN does with poisons to modify the additional effects of your oGCDs could be neat for RDM and I sincerely hope they add the Enspells to RDM considering they're in the game and many, many mobs use them already.

Well you are right, i just hope thats not all it does if implemented.

[Iromi]

If they wanted to put it in this game properly, they'd have to break out of their silly dps/healer/tank stuff. How can they make a class that can melee, cast some black magic..and heal a bit. Who would want that in their PT, when each role in the game really has a set in stone place. It is not a tank, its not a nuker, its not a full DD and its certainly not what you want to rely on for heals. If every fight forces 2 healers, what would rdm do? Just ignore their cure spells?

If there is a BLM in the PT..why nuke? BLM can just out nuke you anyway. And lastly..this game is not known exactly for its friendly fights. For some reason there is no such thing as "winging it" if the tank goes down or someone else does, and allowing recovery. So again...RDM would never have a chance to tank.

[ADVSS]

If there is a BLM in the PT..why nuke? BLM can just out nuke you anyway. And lastly..this game is not known exactly for its friendly fights. For some reason there is no such thing as "winging it" if the tank goes down or someone else does, and allowing recovery. So again...RDM would never have a chance to tank.

IDK ive saved many wipes by raising healers as a smn. And what you speak about yes, game design flaws theres many instances that could be implemented where using side resources can prevent a wipe, clutch, or as you call it "winging it"

I honestly dont think you read any comments from any of what people have been stating.
Lets get this straight, you dont need a bard or machinist in any serious raid comp cause blm can nuke, you dont need ninja cause drg and mnk can out dps them, wait a second - whats...whats this that even if all of us are arguing role type are in agreement of?

wait you mean they CAN make a tank/dps/healer that has a decent amount of desirable utility to be wanted by a serious raid comp? Thats possible?

2 days after ninja came out and warriors were actng like we started the game with goad and they never had to live without it,
youre saying red mage couldnt bring something new thats that good to be desirable?

[Iromi]

^ Nope, a RDM cannot fit in this game if it stays true to the FF roots of what a RDM is. If it is changed heavily however...of course.

SMN was changed, the SMN job in this game is fine if it was labeled something else...but I am sorry, it is NOT a Pet Class as it was supposed to be (see the 1.x player polls) it is a poison mage. It certainly does not feel like I am summoning forbidden beings to do my bidding. I am doing all the work with dots while the pet just sits there and shoots.

Who said anything about not needing bard or machinist? I don't get what you are trying to say. A bard fits in because its a poor support class. It can keep its own with damage. Bard in XIV is not the same as Bard in other FF. In every other FF it was support and it was good at it...with pretty poor damage. It shined with its PT buffs. You would never put a bard in for a damage roll..lol and here we are in XIV, that's what it is.

Let me ask this: Is there any other class who can heal besides WHM, AST and SCH...and if so are they an acceptable healer and why would you bring them over a WHM AST or SCH? Has there every been an instance in an ex primal or savage raid where you could survive without a WHM/AST/SCH healing? Look, besides in face roll content there is no spot for a job that is "mediocre" at all things in this game. So therefore, no they simply cannot stay true to what a RDM in FF is if it was in this game.

However, DRK is a tank so anything is possible? But still, DRK still feels..like a Dark Knight in some ways. Maybe I am close minded in this sense but I really do not see how a job that is a jack of all trades can fit in XIV. They would have to change it drastically how they changed DRK...and you know what will happen with that. Pitchfork time lol.

Have you ever saved any raids when they were relevant raising as SMN? It is impossible...if one person makes a mistake, not even DIES then its over. So of course in face roll content I, too have raised countless people...I am talking about fights like extremes, raids, etc. Not Crystal Tower and dungeon runs....:/

[ADVSS]

In a literal sense, your statement is right. But that does not mean things like our suggestions and visions on how it would work in any given role, without destroying it completely are invalid. Take scholar for instance, all it ever did was -analyze- who would have ever imagined it fitting as a powerful healer that comes from a DPS class by the way? Sure, give it only blizzard 2, fire 2, and cure 2(oh wait that might be pretty damn effective), actually since its literal well give it fire 3 blizzard 3 and medica as well. and since ts half melee only 2 combos. now fill the other 20 or so skills with whatever, a defensive cd, a bunch of whatever utility you can. Yeah i can see it not working out, a blm has a better nuke. Now -what if- we dont give them straight up blm/whm skills, they get some new abilities with the ability to crossclass thm/cnj? even some skills like dia that havent been used....thats what these threads are about, not that only level 3 black and white magic means it cant be placed in this game ever or feel like a rdm(like a drk to you still feels like a drk)

Now I'm s purist at heart, but realistically i know there are things in game like the trinity, and also lore putting jobs into place in what works in this games immersive environment. My thoughts are that the war of magi completely quash any idea of someone using both conjury and thaumaturgy in its purest sense. But that to me, doesnt mean that someone who has been able to tap into and culminate, not master both types of magic restorative elemental/destructive alteration, cant simply have their own abilities that encompass the duality of both(hmm doublecast) maybe they havent mastered thaumaturgy to achive umbral ice, but with some water conjury they can place the status(mp recovery) onto either themselves or someone else, as a one time use cooldown(like goad but mp) Ive thought how implementation can work for a long time, even with road blocks like cnj must eliminate void magic users*HW BLM quest line). The devs can do whatever they want to, but implementing a red mage that feels like one, isnt that far off when you read threads and the actual ideas on how to do it.

[Duelle]

How can they make a class that can melee, cast some black magic..and heal a bit.

Like this.

I still don't understand why it has to do everything in order to be called a hybrid. You can have a hybrid focus on a particular role while also bringing utility via other trades. Nukes could easily be ranged abilities for a red mage or strong skills that are best used mid-combat (provided mechanics allow it). Heals could easily be utility rather than a main purpose.

[ZeratoTyrael]

The best way I can see them making Red Mage is similar to how Enhancement Shaman and Retribution Paladin are in WoW. Melee that adds in instant nukes and have off heals/support available, but weaker and/or restricted by cooldown. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to grasp that basic concept. Now that I think about it, Ninja pretty much does this as it is, but in a more selfish sense.

For example of Enhancement Shaman in WoW (at least in Warlords of Draenor and before): They had melee abilities that tied in magical damage, the procs from meleeing and melee abilities reduced the cast time of, what would normally be, a hard cast spell for each stack of the proc and could make the spell instant and empowered. This worked for nukes and heals. They also had utility spells to buff/debuff your allies/enemies.

Not saying for SE to carbon copy them, but that is a good template to work from for something like a Red Mage. I'm sorry, I'd rather not have Red Mage delegated to the back line when most cases of Red Mage have been front line. Their iconic weapon is a sword/rapier for crying out loud. I loved many things about FFXI but RDM being primarily a back line caster was NOT one of them.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I think there is a high chance of rdm being ranged magic dps with support magic. We have 2 ranged dps 2 ranged magic dps, 3 tanks, 3 healers, 3 melee dps. Although I personally would like them to be a tank or melee/magic dps.

[ADVSS]

I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to grasp that basic concept. Now that I think about it, Ninja pretty much does this as it is, but in a more selfish sense.
I'm sorry, I'd rather not have Red Mage delegated to the back line when most cases of Red Mage have been front line. Their iconic weapon is a sword/rapier for crying out loud. I loved many things about FFXI but RDM being primarily a back line caster was NOT one of them.

I dont know why it is either, there are so many ideas to keep it preserved while fitting in this games system. All i ask for is something more than a backline non moving turret, something thats stuck on the bosses butt 100 percent of the time, or something thats stuck getting punched in the face. any combination of the two, at this point would be nice and refreshing and bare bones redmage could offer it, even before we get into the big details