Fix paladin. Only Class in the entire game that cannot...

[Daniolaut]

Personally i dont feel paladin has an identity crisis.

I feel Paladin lacks skills with which to perform one the two absolute requirements this game demands. (job wise) Black Mage got a buff to do more damage to take into consideration it needs to move, Paladin should get an adjustment considering it cant effectively be a tank and deal damage to any real degree in a multiple mob situation at the same time.

"Movement"

"Damage"


The entire battle system is based around these two things, one of which Paladin lacks to ability to do with flash entirely, which currently it stands as its sole area of effect enmity generation.

You CAN single target in a multiple enemy situation, but lets be realistic, everyone wants to do speed runs and everyone wants to do massive damage.

I'm not asking for paladin to do more damage than warrior, i'm asking it actually do damage with a single area of effect attack.

Updated original post:


PLD level 8
***War Drum***
Spell:
Delivers an attack with your shield at a potency of 90 (or 100) to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity
Cast: instant
Recast: (weaponskill time)
MP: (707 at level 60)
Range 0y
Radius 5y

PLD level 50
***Flash***
Spell:
Delivers blinding light damage with a potency of 100 to all nearby enemies
Additional effect: Increased enmity
Additional effect: Damage over time Potency 30 Duration: 15s
Additional effect: Blind Duration 12s
Cast: Instant
Recast 25.00s
Range 0y
Radius 5y


Effectively switching the effects of Circle of Scorn and Flash, but changing Circle of Scorn to War Drum.

I feel this would make paladin more fun to play, as flash would be more situational and encouraged to time (because of the blind)

While also giving Paladin a fun ability again, to allow it to keep threat and deal damage. The animation for Circle of Scorn doesnt even make sense to me personally.




Black mage received a change because of turn 9, due to its supposed high demand of movement, and the jobs ability to do damage based upon that demand..

Paladin should get a change because flash does absolutely 0 damage and its paladins sole, singular, area of effect enmity generation. There is circle of scorn, but thats like saying black mage has scathe, and scathe should be its main source of damage in turn 9. Which is absurd. Dont go there.

[Shurrikhan]

snip

Why effectively remove Flash, only to then bake it into Circle of Scorn? You're changing Flash to a physical Unleash, and then giving CoS a blind. Why though?

Additionally, a couple points of interest: Right now every PLD oGCD does identical maximum single-target dps over time. That seems very intentional, even if not especially important, on SE's part. This would break that, and I'm not sure for what benefit.
How? Because of the real point here: Blind = mitigation = healer dps. Potentially.

Flash's real concerns, in my opinion are simply these:
- Too many enemies are immune it its effects.
- It cannot stack.

Both can be fixed, though both may require something slightly new coding-wise to remain balanced, and the latter may require an element of compromise.
- If Blind were to work on everything, the potential % accuracy decrease could serve alike to an on-demand Dark Arts - Dark Dance. This would be overpowered when that could potentially save some 12k health. Especially when you consider that your only other way of generating that health, Clemency, would have cost you RNG mitigation during its cast and would take up almost half your mana. Alternatively, when incoming damage is quite low, the added healer dps uptime it may cause might not be worth even a single Fast Blade. As such, the blind needs to aim for a potency-equivalent level of accuracy reduction. In other words, the stronger you get compared to the enemy, the stronger the Blind gets. Your GCDs lost on Flash over time should have fairly obvious returns in the form of healer dps or stance-dancing. -- I believe this system would have benefits game-wide.
- The second issue is that Flash gains no benefit for being used before the duration fades completely, as not to lose maximum debuff uptime over the diminishing returns, whereas its competing tank AoEs can be spammed. This doesn't mean that it needs to be scrapped and replaced with yet another damage AoE. It just needs to have the ability to be burst as needed similarly to the others without having counter-synergy, lest the theoretical strength of the ability (without that counter-synergy) be too strong as to balance for these more practical uses. To that end, it needs to be able to either add effect (e.g. flat accuracy reduction, where the enemy's base accuracy increases as you get into more serious content, making a lesser % effect in later tiers assuming the same player strength), or duration (while the initial effect is increased and more standardized but the duration is dependent on enemy strength). -- I believe both of these systems, too, will need to be added eventually into the game.

And there you have a Flash that remains Flash, unique, a tankily tank AoE, while meeting those "absolute needs".

For me, as a "Main tank" it should have focused its survival on healing, being the only tank that requires knowledge in magic, and as an "Off tank", on covering people in time of need.
Two things that are severely downplayed.

A blunt idea that could have been interesting is allowing Rampart and Sentinel to be used on a target. Maybe the enhanced version would only apply when used on you, to not be too powerful. And Cover made into a trait triggered by critical HP and proximity.

What difference does it make whether you Rampart someone else or take the blow yourself with Rampart active, except that you have more base mitigation that most and would have access to the enhanced versions. Sure, we'd potentially want something for when Provoke or Cover are down, but I for one would rather then see our snap-tanking capabilities improved rather than going a SCH-ish route of saving people from afar. Generally speaking.

I still do feel a little peeved that Shelltron neither covers allies behind you, nor (in the form of something like "Aegis Boon" instead) can it be cast on others for a more direct shield. (Which would be SCH af, so I accept all accusations of hypocrisy.)

[Reynhart]

What difference does it make whether you Rampart someone else or take the blow yourself with Rampart active, except that you have more base mitigation that most and would have access to the enhanced versions.

Because sometimes, you're not the one tanking the boss...
You could put it on top of a Vengeance+Inner Beast or ShadowSkin+(DA)DarkMind combo to achieve high mitigation without automatically using a 3min CD...and staying in Sword Oath.

As for Sheltron, I also think it should be an AoE conal block, so it could intercept a blow not directed at you.

In my opinion, they should have had the pld face off against a band of the arrogant ishgard knights that only care about their own glory and victory instead of protecting the innocent/common people of Ishgard.

You mean protecting an innocent againt temple knights ? Welcome to DRK storyline.
Wouldn't "The Knight and the Maiden fair" be more suited for a PLD quest ?

[Khalithar]

You mean protecting an innocent againt temple knights ? Welcome to DRK storyline.
Wouldn't "The Knight and the Maiden fair" be more suited for a PLD quest ?

No not protecting someone from the temple knights. More along the lines of some dragons attacking some civilians and the temple knights care only about the glory of killing the larger dragons (which guarantees them prestige in Ishgardian society) while ignoring the little ones going after the civilians. It would be on the paladin to spend time defending and protecting others rather than being only interested in killing dragons for the prestige/rewards.

[Daniolaut]

Why effectively remove Flash, only to then bake it into Circle of Scorn? You're changing Flash to a physical Unleash, and then giving CoS a blind. Why though?

Flash would be an action not a weaponskill (off the global cooldown) with my suggestion.


So it would be more like Dark Messenger, not unleash.

War Drum, or Circle of Scorn would cost MP, thus becoming the "Unleash" similar weaponskill. (On the global cooldown.)

Then the blind would still be with flash, and would be encouraged, at certain moments to be timed, since its on a 25 second cooldown.

I think that Flash doing no damage can actually be a good thing? Like when bosses become invulnerable, you can still get hate on them if needed (looking at you last boss of Halatali normal ¬.¬). .

The reason Paladin/Gladiator pretty much sucks at keeping threat *in comparison* to warrior or dark knight at low levels, is because flash doesnt deal damage.

Since overpower and unleash both do damage, as well as Steel cyclone, while also generating enmity on top of the damage, neither tank job should ever have enmity issues at any level.

Paladin/Gladiator on the other hand, when using flash, is only generating enmity, so the enmity calculation isnt enhanced because of the lack of damage.

Which i personally feel, overrides any situational moment where you need threat but cant hit an enemy, as your enmity calculation with wardrum, or circle of scorn, now being your main source of area of effect enmity, would be enhanced with damage, thus not needing the "extra" in such a situation because youre now generating proper enmity because of the enmity calculation enhancement from damage.

[Reynhart]

The reason Paladin/Gladiator pretty much sucks at keeping threat *in comparison* to warrior or dark knight at low levels, is because flash doesnt deal damage.

Wrong.
Flash enmity scales with your stats and have an enmity modifier on par with Overpower or Unleash. The reason why PLD can have issues is because it needs to wait until level 40 to learn its tank stance.

Yet, even with that, enmity is not an issue in the end...The reason why people want Flash to be changed is for MOAR AoE DEEPS !!!

[ADVSS]

Wrong.
Flash enmity scales with your stats and have an enmity modifier on par with Overpower or Unleash. The reason why PLD can have issues is because it needs to wait until level 40 to learn its tank stance.

Yet, even with that, enmity is not an issue in the end...The reason why people want Flash to be changed is for MOAR AoE DEEPS !!!

I dont blame them though that they do though, its not like pld is highest single target damage tank which warrents being awful at aoe damage for balancing sake.

[Daniolaut]

Wrong.

Good job on explaining something that doesnt actually happen in game, and then also not backing it up with any kind of actual proof.


Also, stating i'm wrong flat out, and not following with any kind of sensible statement is actually quite annoying, as well as ... well... youre not correct.

Seeing as youre someone who has been playing since 1.0, and has all three tanks level 60, i would expect you not to say such things.


------------------------------------------------------------

Overpower:
Level 12
Deals damage with a potency of 120
Additional effect: Increased Enmity

Unleash:
Level 8
Deals damage with a potency of 100
Additional effect: Increased Enmity

Flash:
Level 8
Increases enmity to enemies nearby.
Additional effect: Blind

(basically stand there and get hit.)

-------------------------------------------------------


So as you can see, right off the bat, anyone with a little bit of common sense, would know that 120 potency is more than 100, so warrior will stand on top of area of effect threat generation in comparison to just flash and unleash, no other factors.

Cause 120>100>0

(overpower>Unleash>Flash)

First dungeon level 15.

Warrior also gets maim at level 18. So, for a maximum of 3 dungeons you go without maim...

BUT warrior gains the most enmity due to the fact they have the highest potency.

Dark Knight gets Dark Side at level 30 which increases damage by 15%

Both

Warrior and Dark Knight get their tank stance at level 30, which increases enmity.


So...

120+20% > 100+15% > 0 +0%

(Overpower > Unleash > Flash)


So the real situation why Paladin wants an area of effect attack, is to not only do damage, but since Fight or Flight does *not* affect flash's enmity calculator, but Dark Side does, and obviously the tank stances.

You should now probably maybe see why paladin is lacking.

But most likely you'll try and nit pick any nonesense about a shield or something else, and magically say i'm wrong.

I even asked that their area of effect do only 90 potency just to be fair. Seriously its not that big of a suggestion.


I even made a video for you! check it out:

https://youtu.be/IOYi7qHfXXM

[Daniolaut]

So just to make it even more simple...

let me say this...

you cant get a Critical Flash.

So again. Paladin is lacking.

[Reynhart]

Good job on explaining something that doesnt actually happen in game, and then also not backing it up with any kind of actual proof.

Flash enmity testing

So again. Paladin is lacking.

Again, not on enmity. Flash could be an AoE provoke, it would still be a problem, because it's not helping killing mobs.