They need to bake ACC cap into cleric stance already.

[_slowpoke_]

The main point is that I don't want the game to go easier and easier by removing all thing that bother player...

What. Again, if something is primarily a bother, it's bad design. Good design revolves around meaningful choices and risk/reward mechanics, not arbitrarily burdening the player.

If there is no challenge there is no game
The accuracy is there to force us to balance stat around it.

Except Accuracy is not a challenge. It doesn't add any difficulty. It's merely annoying, and nothing else. Having to work around limitations and horrible design decisions is not actual difficulty. Difficulty should come from actually playing the game, not having to juggle around arbitrary numbers to even be able to properly play the game in the first place, because that's what Accuracy amounts to.

Without it everyone would go all Crit All det and so and so...

Again, yes, the stat system as a whole needs an overhaul overall. I'm well aware that Crit is currently the godking among stats.

there would be no BiS

You're not making any sense at all. Of course there would be a BiS, and why would you even think this is an argument?

I don't see a whole secondary stat rework needed

Then you're clearly not looking hard enough because the secondary stat system in this game is horrible, in-transparent, and uninteresting, with major design faults to boot.

If you remove accuracy, this mean that the more or less 700 acc point everybody (DPS/Tank) have must be reallocate somewhere

Why do you even apply this to the current game when I have clearly said that I would like this to be done in 4.0, and as part of a general stat overhaul. Of fucking course would removing Accuracy right now without any other changes to the game be a stupid idea. That's not what anyone is asking for.

As I see it, accuracy is the most simpliest stat compared to the other

Err, so accuracy is the simplest stat, but somehow it's adding challenge to the game? Make up your mind, you're contradicting yourself.

Yes finding good number are some work, but it's only fail and retry... what we are doing endlessly in MMO

Having to find out an arbitrary number by trial and error simply because the devs refuse to either flat out give us that number or implement a sensible way in the game to see whether that number has been reached is bullshit and is nothing but frustrating. In WoW, you at least knew how much additional hit chance you got from your hit rating (because the game told you), and you knew how much additional percentage of hit chance you needed to soft-cap, because the devs didn't make a great secret out of it and as far as I know, it never fundamentally changed until hit rating was removed. They still removed the stat.

As I said you cannot compare those 2 MMO because they work differently (just... in the healing process for example)

Yes we can compare them. Holy shit, the FFXIV devs even outright stated that they use WoW for inspiration, why would we not compare them? It's perfectly valid to do comparisons when talking about very fundamental game mechanics like stats and gear. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's magically not applicable.

And even after reading the patchnote I fail to see their point
basicly it has been removed because it bother players... ?

They removed it because it was a horribly designed stat which, yes, bothered players among other things.

and alongside with this removal they also made a complete rework of all stat and adding new one...
it's a 180° change

Yes, which is what I am asking for.

I don't see the point of doing that in FF14 since it work as it is

It doesn't, that's why we're having this entire debate. That's why healers groan about having to meld Accuracy. That's what makes gearing up in this game shitty and restrictive. If you're unlucky, you might be sitting on hard-earned upgrades for weeks or have to rearrange your entire melds because you can't cap Accuracy anymore if you wear them. That's major bullshit.

This is not because they did it that it is a good idea

What. And stop posting shitty meme images, they're not exactly helping you make any point - not that you had any to begin with, because all you're saying is incoherent, self-contradicting nonsense.

the melding slot are there for that reason.

Yes, to improve your character. And not to remove arbitrary penalties from it because of a shitty stat system, because that's what Accuracy is and always will be.

[Shurrikhan]

At present, if healers alone could ignore accuracy requirements, you'd likely have to scale back the Cleric Stance damage bonus to balance it. Which I'd be fine with. Get rid of Accuracy as a stat entirely, and you'd have to rescale a number of things for the increased amount of actually useful secondary stats they'd be bringing in place of Accuracy. Both are entirely feasible, likely even... easy.

At worst, the removal of Accuracy would merely extend already existent imbalances in secondary stat scaling rates between jobs or exponential scaling within a given secondary stat in the same way that progressing further into any given expansion (and therefore secondary stat totals) would. These are already oversights that should be fixed in themselves, not used as a defense of flawed mechanics that partially hide them.

That said, I'd argue that Accuracy can in itself be made into a somewhat interesting stat, but only if it stops acting as merely a constrictor or obligatory expense. For melee classes, Accuracy can equate to gameplay differences; it determines whether you have full damage potential from all positions, ability bonuses aside. Moreover, having an Accuracy stat gives a means to increase damage by any under-accuracy allies through evasion reduction abilities such as Rain of Death. While the latter could simply be changed into a much more minor overall damage buff, it would then lose any sense of conditional use. Last but not least, the fact that above-average Accuracy (e.g. front-capping) might not be used in every fight gives some small sense of optional gearing — this can be annoying to swap around to some, but enjoyable to others. At that point it becomes an actual decision: do I want to reliably attack from a frontal stack or against mobs locked onto me, or do I want a bit more straight offensive potential in the form of Crit, Det, or Speed? It ends up your second quantized stat alongside Speed, increasing effectiveness mostly just at specific levels, to balance out the more analog returns of Crit and Det – only much more optional than the others.


Tl;dr:

My thoughts on the short-term is that only WHM really ought to have a Cleric bonus. If the Accuracy cap were baked into CS, then the damage bonus should be reduced to balance it.

In the long-term I'd like to see Accuracy simply removed, or require only so much allotment as would be its theoretical pay off in your most optimal secondary stat to be able to move from back-capped to flank- or front-capped. (I'd also like casters to use Flank cap instead of Back, just to be fair.)

[Jukebox12]

The only class that should get acc on cleric is whm. Astro and sch has actions that has no acc needed and whm is always a main healer this will help with main healer to contribute to dps while not sacrifice mp. It better to hit a skill than miss cuz your wasting reasources

[FinaSel]

I remember before I even thought about going into Alexander Savage, one of my friends who raids a lot said to me.
"Your gear is no good. You need to put all accuracy on this and that item".

I said "Accuracy!? Why?? I think I never miss in Weeping City or Dungeons."
He said "To do Alexander Savage".

I said "So, if I put Accuracy here though, won't my healing ability decrease?"
He said "You need to DPS in Alexander Savage. That's why you need Accuracy."


I thought "Heck no. I'm not going to remove my Crit, Det, and Vit materia and replace it with Accuracy materia just for a couple of raids."
And I thought "If the DPS's DPS isn't enough, then there must be a problem with...the DPS..."

I find it SO strange that healers need to get Accuracy materia. I always DPS when I can, but as a WHM, I am usually way too busy healing everyone in just A5 to even consider entering Cleric Stance.

Call me stubborn if you'd like, but I don't feel comfortable removing materia that helps with healing to put in materia for DPS when the time spent DPSing in a raid is so little.

Personally, I feel like accuracy should make sense for physical attacks, but not for magic ones.

[MahoSenshi]

The thing with ACC is that you practically NEED a 3-rd party program to track misses -> figure ACC cap for the fight.

[Nekotee]

Accuracy doesn't really affect healing since 90% of your healing power come from mind and not determination or crit

If you're too busy healing to dps in A5S then your group is doing something wrong
There is a lot of dps windows in A5S because during almost the whole fight only MT and OT are taking damage and the group during choc therapy

If the MT is rotating CD correctly you can dps while his hp are going down slowly enough for you to top him after
(Plus if you're whm... Yolodiction is your go to healing for dps)

[_slowpoke_]

And I thought "If the DPS's DPS isn't enough, then there must be a problem with...the DPS..."

Making up for missing DPS from the actual damage dealers is not what healer DPS is about, though (unless you were doing A3s and A4s when they were relevant).

It's about reducing downtime and, more importantly, pushing phases, which can greatly reduce incoming damage that you would otherwise have to heal, or prevent mechanics that might kill people from happening entirely. As an example in A5s, if you have enough DPS (and you should at this point in the gear cycle, really), you can skip the first Prey by pushing Twinkledinks below 90% before it happens, at which point he turns small. You can skip a lot more in A5s, that's just the most basic example. This is true for basically every Savage fight to some degree, and it can be very important during progression because it can and does affect strategy for entire phases. To take the A5s example again, if you know you can skip the first Prey or are very close to it, there's no need to move him into the northwest corner on pull, which is in turn a DPS gain for the raid.

Also, Accuracy is the substat with the most gain per point in terms of overall performance, of which DPS is an integral part, whether you like it or not. The minuscule amount of healing output you lose from not melding whatever other substats instead is completely negligible by comparison. VIT is really the only exception (because it's a very high gain in survivability and was necessary during early A8s progression), but you can easily match Accuracy requirements for every content currently in the game while still melding your right side with VIT, either by putting 120 Accuracy on your relic, or by utilizing two pentamelded 220s (or some combination thereof), so it's really not an excuse not to cap Accuracy.

I always DPS when I can, but as a WHM, I am usually way too busy healing everyone in just A5 to even consider entering Cleric Stance.

Then either you or your group (or both) are doing something wrong. There's a lot of DPS windows in A5s, even if you are mostly (or entirely) solo-healing it, provided you properly utilize all your CDs and your group isn't eating too much unnecessary damage. Outside of the concussion phases, the Shock Therapies, and the add phases, there isn't much group or tank damage going on, and a Regen and the SCH's fairy should be more than enough to take care of autoattacks from the boss, so you're free to Cleric away.

But honestly, several of the things you mention are reasons I agree with why Accuracy should be removed entirely. As it currently stands, though, you meld Accuracy for Savage, or you go home.

[technole]

Lots of free time for WHM to DPS in A5S. Some nice gains is getting it in your head that you are actually still doing damage to dinks if you have your DoTs up while are you are bird. Before any boost, ensure DoTs will last. Basically let regen do the tank lifting, he does crap auto damage when small and your main tank can practically do the entire fight without tank stance during those states. Learn to use all your cooldowns to maximum advantage. Whether it's Swiftcast your AoE healing early on, or to quickly Holy stun the snakes, then to go ham. Good party DPS means skipping the first boost, and killing before the piggie show.

Healers are never going to get free ACC even if they decide to continue with the stat in 4.0. He made that pretty clear when they just decided to nerf dungeon accuracy, to ensure savage end-gamers either meld it or tough luck. He did mention they are even going to add ACC to the SSS dummies for Alex creator.

[ChiiSoSeriouz]

Regarding vitality, it's value over the other side stats is tremendous in every floor, not just a8s. Survive-ability from hard hitting mechanics or extra splash damage from a botched mechanic is more important then a small healing potency boost det would give you, For example, a6s pre nerf was very unforgiving on vortexer transfers. The damage was severe and if the player with lightning or water dies it wipes the raid.

The devs decision to ease up on acc needed in dungeons and not savage raids is fine imo. Healers will have to commit and meld accuracy, not doing so isn't optimal. Having assize miss or having stone miss when putting heavy on a target is way worse then missing out on a small amount of potency that's negligible. Of course you can still meld crit and det after you meet the acc cap.

[Supersun]

The problem with melding accuracy is that it's only a band-aid. The gap between base stats on armor and what you can meld is only going to get higher and higher. Eventually with the way things are progressing even with melding you won't be able to get enough accuracy to hit if your armor doesn't have any.

Barring getting rid of accuracy in general which I think is the better solution, and really only serves as a gate for how soon people can clear content, adding a trait for healers that gives additional accuracy based on their piety would also work. Piety on healer gear is similar enough to accuracy on DPS and tank gear in that you only want the very minimum that you need and then it's better to focus on DPS/HPS stats.