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  1. #41
    Player
    Frederick22's Avatar
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    Feb 2015
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    Frederick Blake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    I wouldn't call it a confirmation, but I read most things when "some scholars suggest" to be direct shoutouts to us lore nerds here, lol (Even if we say this is idle self flattery, there's enough there for it not to be confirmed, imo)
    (Like the bit about some scholars believing the Bulb is related to the Treant, but then the book provides evidence carried out by other scholars against, etc)
    I love when the dev team to this kind of things. I would look like if us were be writting the game's lore xD

    Getting back to the topicI. If they are not intelligent, why are they using staffs? Thats a clear hint of intelligence, no?
    (1)

  2. #42
    Player
    myahele's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Gridania
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    4,644
    Character
    Tonrak Totorak
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    It's nice to know that scholars are trying to connect Bilikos with that of Remnants of Sephirot beast tribe.

    They might not be "intelligent" but we all know how Allagans like to strip the intelligence/free will of things to make them into killing machines. Much like how Ixalion were "mindless" and eventually became Ixals we know today. The Bilikos could very well be what remains of Sephirot's beastribe post-Allagan.

    Anyways, I'd love to know what the taxt talking about the 1st astral/umbral are. Its too small/blurry for me to read.

    I do wonder if the Reptoids are Zurvan's tribe? They got the same physiology + have a spear. Additionally, maybe those Lamiae are Sophia's tribe, too? They carry weapons. There's also a FATE in Azsy Lla about Lamiae with self-awareness seeking to escape.
    (3)
    Last edited by myahele; 09-04-2016 at 09:45 AM.

  3. #43
    Player
    Frederick22's Avatar
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    Frederick Blake
    World
    Sargatanas
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    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by myahele View Post
    They might not be "intelligent" but we all know how Allagans like to strip the intelligence/free will of things to make them into killing machines. Much like how Ixalion were "mindless" and eventually became Ixals we know today
    If you read the quote well on the fractal continuum, you know that they were created as intelligent creatures to used as slaves.
    (1)

  4. #44
    Player
    Ametrine's Avatar
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    Character
    Diantha Sunstone
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick22 View Post
    If you read the quote well on the fractal continuum, you know that they were created as intelligent creatures to used as slaves.
    I understood it as the Allagan created beasties were derivitive of wild animals. Basically, we're dealing with the Allagan equivalent to dog breeding.
    (0)

  5. #45
    Player
    Frederick22's Avatar
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    Frederick Blake
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    Sargatanas
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    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ametrine View Post
    I understood it as the Allagan created beasties were derivitive of wild animals. Basically, we're dealing with the Allagan equivalent to dog breeding.
    They did not created all the beast tribes. So far we only know of the ixal, and their purpose was for manufacturing and repairs.
    There were beast tribes already on the times of allag.
    (1)

  6. #46
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    5,031
    Character
    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ametrine View Post
    I understood it as the Allagan created beasties were derivitive of wild animals. Basically, we're dealing with the Allagan equivalent to dog breeding.
    An accurate assumption ... at first. The Allagan Empire's manipulation of nature started small, but each successive generation of bioweapon was more advanced than the last. It's likely that - much like Imperial timeline as a whole - it progressed exponentially; so the time between the first few events might be more than the rest combined.

    Generation I
    Naught more than simple hybridization. Traits were inherited randomly from the parents, and the offspring were sterile. These are extinct (unless there are some in stasis, somewhere, I suppose).

    Generation II
    The first true examples genetic manipulations. Synthetic processes were developed to target and overcome limitations in hybridization, such as the sterility issue plaguing hopes of mass-production. I assume that they also began to expand the range of things that could successfully produce hybrid offspring in the first place,seeing as the Owlbear (aka Mirrorknight) is from this generation.

    Generation III
    Major breakthrough in the ability to splice in more than the two parental genes. All sorts of animals could be genetically combined or grafted to one another. The Chimera is an example from this generation. These abominations were powerful, but the Imperial Army had almost no control over them. They were all brutality and no obedience.

    Generation IV
    Developed with an explicit focus on overcoming the drawbacks of Gen. III. Priority was given to the potential for intelligence and obedience. By this time, Amon and/or the royals were also making huge strides with cloning technology, so the Spoken races were not exempt from experimentation. The Shabti and Iksalion are two examples resulting from that branch of research. (FUN FACT: In the Aetherochemical Research Facility, you can see un-incubated biomasses, slimes, but you can also see mobs called Biohazards that are similar to hecteyes and say things like IT HURTS and HELP ME. Those are most likely Gen IV Spoken-based bioweapons that failed to incubate properly.)

    Generation V
    Might not really be a thing, as synthetic voidsent might be research independent of the generations. Either way, that's where bioweapon tech went from Gen. IV. Xande was well into his pact with Darkness and things like the Naga and Empuse were being developed. Based on the Void Ark, I'm still pretty sure that the Lamia are artificial voidsent (and more sure than ever that the Lamia in Satasha (Hard) were not actually drowned wenches, but escapees from the nearby Ragnarok wreck. But, hey, I've been wrong before.).

    There also might be further generations, but that's all the information I have, personally. I assume that once things moved into primal capture and dragon enslavement, then the tech of previous generations was mostly applied and refined ... but who knows. The Calamity probably wasn't far from that time, regardless. Even artificial voidsent are referred to as "emerging technology" in Fractal, which one would assume was up-to-date during the fall.

    It might also not be fair to assume that all of the beast tribes were created by Allag, as they are said to have experimented on tribes that existed contemporary to the Empire. That line made me recall an old theory I had that the beast tribes were mortals slowly warped over time by their summoned gods' traits. (I assume that's probably still wrong, lol.)
    (3)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 09-13-2016 at 08:57 AM.

  7. #47
    Player
    Frederick22's Avatar
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    Frederick Blake
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    Sargatanas
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    Paladin Lv 90
    I thought that Iksalion were part of the last generation, they are superior than shabtis.
    (0)

  8. #48
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick22 View Post
    I thought that Iksalion were part of the last generation, they are superior than shabtis.
    I assume generations work like, to use a random example, fighter jets. You can have multiple aircraft within the same combat generation that not only have different capabilities, but superior/inferior capabilities across the board. To grab a totally random example off of Wikipedia, the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet largely replaced the aging F-14 Tomcat, but both are considered fourth-generation fighters.
    (2)
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  9. #49
    Player
    Nalien's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
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    3,784
    Character
    Taisai Jin
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 64
    I hope this has a whole section on Beast tribes and their respective customs and beliefs... A whole page explaining the horrors of the Mamool Ja's ritual dance, pretty please?

    No, but seriously, I need an explanation for Manxome Molaa Ja Ja... XI it worked, the Mamool Ja where alchemical creations of Aht Urhgan, they were basically Allagan-level messed up, two headed Mamool Ja didn't seem too odd... Here? No explanation... I like to think that's their reproductive cycle... They reach a stage of maturity, then undergo a painfully slow process of large scale mitosis, and that's what we're seeing... One Mamool Ja splitting into two brother Mamool Ja... Slowly... Don't let me keep thinking that SE! It's too painful to imagine...

    Would also be nice to get some hints as to what their Primal might be (same for the Qiqirn), if they even have one... Although in passing some Mamool Ja Sophists the other day, I couldn't help but go "Huh...", I know that's not what a Sophist is, but the thought still entered my head, and with Scarface Bugaal Ja lurking around, I find the idea of them worshiping a scantly clad woman fairly hilarious, plus Sophia kinda has two heads... Then I realized Mamool Ja got reskinned and placed in Crystal Tower... It all makes sense!

    Then there's other tribes... I'd love to know why the Vanu Vanu held the key to Azys Lla on a sacred island (before Bismarck ate it, of course, presumably to keep it away from Garlean hands), and what was up with Sonu Vanu warning us about Azys Lla as if he'd been there? Ugh! When can I has this lore book?!
    (3)
    Last edited by Nalien; 09-13-2016 at 03:30 AM.

  10. #50
    Player PArcher's Avatar
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    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gridania
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    2,580
    Character
    Kytre Ashaer
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    FYI, his triad card has some information on the two-headed mamool-ja
    (0)

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