I just can't understand the mentality. + My thoughts.

[MistressAthena]

This isn't the first time I've encountered this in FFXIV.

Everyone understands the "wearing rose tinted glasses". Everyone "should" understand that not every game is for everyone, and how much a game is for you can vary on several different levels. What am I getting at?

The fact that not once, not twice, but 3 times. I've been "shunned" by a LS and half of its active people for voicing my opinions about FFXIV. It's at the level of religion, where if you don't want to have a high risk of destroying your relationship regardless of how close you are to the person you simply don't talk about it unless you say you agree with everything they say and leave it at that.

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The first time I was talking about FFXI. A game in my opinion will never be beat back before Abysea. I understand and can respect it wasn't for everyone. Some even down right hated it. I personally loved it for its challenge, and depth, and how leveling up, and doing quests, etc. required real teamwork between random peeps. It was awesome, and in my opinion even the basic quests felt like an adventure because you'd have to grab several high level friends and hoof it all over vana'diel.

It was these contrasting differences between FFXI and FFXIV that I voiced the first time. I even out right said I respect what other people feel and think, but I was attacked for a good hour then shunned from an LS I had been in for half a year.

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The Second time was in another LS I had been in again for quite a long time. I voiced my opinion that I liked the direction FFXIV was going before ARR. Of course at release it had major problems. Tons and tons of optimization problems, etc. But I liked the general base mechanics, and how things were improving, I saw a very good future for it had they continued. I voiced my opinion I just didn't like the way FFXIV was for varying reasons which to keep this post rather short I won't get into.

I was again attacked, shunned, and asked by several people to leave the LS. Even though again I repeatedly said, even at the very start that I respect what other people feel or think about FFXIV.

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The Third time, just last night, again same situation. I voiced my opinion that I think FFXIV is rather easy. There's not much depth to any of the mechanics, or fights, and even coils and savage's are very easy to me. The only thing that makes me fail them are lag spikes, or other people just not caring to learn the mechanics or hoping to get carried.

I even voiced the logic that many of the fails are just due to simple human error, being tired, etc. as well and even if you wipe repeatedly, its again not necessarily because its hard, but other small factors that played into it. Simple button miss clicks by 2 people can make a wipe. I personally don't consider that "hard".

But again I was attacked. "Why do you not have them all completed then? Why do you have only 1 lvl 60 then? yada yada yada" well because I don't play often. It's a pretty simple logical answer.

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What's with this mentality that god himself gifted us this game, and shame on anyone who doesn't think its 100% godly perfection?

In my opinion there are many glaring problems with the game at its very core. The elevator progression on everything imo is just horrendous. That's an Opinion btw. Please don't bite my head off for it. The reason I feel this way is because it makes everything you did and work for obsolete, and useless a few months down the road. (Don't mistake this of course for the same in other MMO's where you get new stuff every few levels which makes past stuff useless).

What I'm talking about for instance is the zodiak weapons. Good job, you spent MONTHS of hard work, MONTHS of grinding, and time spent, and now we just released a new expansion where EVERYONE can get what you have in 1 day with no effort.. Kinda makes all that time spent acquiring it useless and a massive waste of time doesnt it? Especially when you consider that those weapon stats really didn't do much in terms of helping you through dungeons easier in the long run. It's not like in FFXI for example, that getting a weapon, or armor could be extremely beneficial for a very very long time with very obvious and large usefulness. Even if down the road new weapons or armors came out that or special NM drops came out that were better, many times the old piece of equipment would still be very useful on either another class, or a specific situation, and it never really lost its complete usefulness.

Same goes for the current ceiling cap of armors and upgrading them, you do realize in a few months time or shorter all that had work will be for naught as well right? It just diminishes the value in doing anything in my opinion.

Then of course the effect this has on crafting, making 95% of everything between levels 1-50 completely useless, and most things now between 50-60 also useless as new things are added and everyone is boosted to these max attributes. Makes crafting for new players a complete headache that's hardly worth it.

This is why I feel games like FFXI where everything was evenly distributed between levels, leveling was slower, and there was plenty to do between all levels and not just endless boring grinding of the same dungeon again and again and again and again for something that in a few months time is going to be useless anyway as everyone can by pass what you just did and get instantly boosted to that new level, was better. Made crafting useful at all levels, if I didn't want to grind parties to level up I had a plethora of other things I could do that took alot of time to complete, but I could do with friends, and was engaging and exciting. (Hunting marks is really all there is in FFXIV, and that's neither engaging or fun, it's more of another chore).

I could go on, but this isn't supposed to be a rant thread. You get the point. FFXIV just isn't really for me, and even though I don't always understand this extreme love for the game so many people have, I respect that that's what it is. Maybe its the society of today where everyone wants everything without real effort, doesn't matter how long it takes so long as no real effort is required except just spending time. Maybe its because people don't know anymore what true challenges are, or having too remember combo's, and learning hidden mechanics, and not having bosses tell you ahead of time with a charge up on every attack what its about to do, and having too use limited tools to keep the fight going and get past them. Who knows.

But now I come full circle.. Why can't people respect how others feel about FFXIV? Of course not everyone does this or shuns me on my opinions, but.. an excessive amount do, and I just don't get why.

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[PArcher]

Its very possible that it was how you voiced your opinions rather than the opinions themselves.

Just because you think you are in the right, that you were "civil", that they were the ones attacking you, doesn't mean it was how it was.

We have one side of the story here. And as its been seen again and again here...that one story almost always has holes in it.

Yes, it is also possible that you are right...but to be kicked/shamed not once, not twice, but *three* times from places you were a part of for a good amount of time...


(also...please go raid before you call everything about the game easy. Go clear SCoB Savage synced, or even the normal Coils synced, or get through A8S. Too bad you can't do A3S pre-nerf, or T7 pre-nerf... Basically, you can't just call everything easy without trying, and making excuses why everything is easy. There is a reason the top raiders, people who are exceptionally good at this game, put *hours* into learning fights before they clear it, and most people weeks before clearing, if they do at all)

[Lokier]

Easy answer; no one likes what they like being criticised, I should know, I criticise everything and upset everyone. :P
Lord knows if I say "I like every wow expansion" I'll be chased for miles down the street, hah...



Complex answer; Humans are naturally defencive and thus take to anything you say like salt on a slug. You just gotta be like the French and eat those slugs on the internet. Not everyone's going to agree with what you say. That and no matter how open-minded you are you'll hardly ever meet anyone who thinks the same. You can tell them how open-minded you are about their beliefs and opinions but they're still going to hate you because you don't agree with them.

That's my experience with other humans anyway.

[Jynx]

The whole rose tinted glasses thing is a misnomer and anyone stating that just has a weak platform of discussion.

Putting that aside, I can't see why a "Civil" discussion would lead to being blackballed by a linkshell. Obviously the same way you like FFXI for it's content style many people actually do enjoy FFXIV just as much and it's not really fun to hang around someone who is always being a downer on something they enjoy. Hell I'm pretty vocal about my issues with the game but I'm also able to share in the experiences that I do enjoy with the current game.

waxing poetic about FFXI is great sometimes, but if your enjoying the company you keep you need to keep their opinions in mind as well when discussing stuff. On the flipside if people are being unseasonable about your right to have an opinion it's not really a group you should be hanging out with anyways. You really shouldn't force yourself to be silent, but you should also be understanding the opinions of others at the same time.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Doesn't matter how much you say quests are not like 11 or battles are not like 11 etc. At the end of the day 11 is no longer like 11, yes 14 needs tweaks and more varied content but still I have had more actual playtime (as in actually doing stuff not standing around shouting for people to join x quest,fight,dungeon,exp,synergy), in the past 3 years than I did in 10 years on 11.

[Musashidon]

Maybe its because people don't know anymore what true challenges are

because at this point people who love ff11 are exactly like vegans you don't care if they only eat vegetables but you sure don't want to hear them talk about it.

seriously just say the trigger word and here comes the ff11 fanbase comming to show you how organic ff11 was and how we should be ashamed to play this game and support them.

[MistressAthena]

Its very possible that it was how you voiced your opinions rather than the opinions themselves.

Just because you think you are in the right, that you were "civil", that they were the ones attacking you, doesn't mean it was how it was.

We have one side of the story here. And as its been seen again and again here...that one story almost always has holes in it.

Yes, it is also possible that you are right...but to be kicked/shamed not once, not twice, but *three* times from places you were a part of for a good amount of time...


(also...please go raid before you call everything about the game easy. Go clear SCoB Savage synced, or even the normal Coils synced, or get through A8S. Too bad you can't do A3S pre-nerf, or T7 pre-nerf...)

Person A: "I like the savages, but they're kinda hard."
Person B: "They are better than some games though. I used to play WoW all the time before this. Hated FFXIV before ARR though that was so trash"
Me: "I liked FFXIV before ARR more to be honest. Just the immersion to it had much more depth in my opinion. I haven't had any real difficulty on any of the raids or dungeons either."
Person C: "wtf, do you even logic?"
Person A: "FFXIV original was garbage, everything from the quests, and optimization, all of it."
Me: "I didn't think so, but I know it wasn't for everyone. One of my friends absolutely hated it XD".
Person A: "No, like seriously what did you think was good about it?"
Me: "I liked the open dungeons, and the interaction between adventuring and crafting, how they relied so heavily on each other"

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That's how it started. If you can point out where I wasn't civil let me know. But they just got more and more aggressive and spiteful towards me for the next 30 minutes.

That being said, I have gone and raided. I have cleared SCoB savage synced, and normal coils. I've done A3S pre nerf, and T7 Pre nerf. They weren't "hard". The only difficulty was lag spikes, and people just not getting it. Which unfortunately makes me also fail it since the dungeons are designed to not be able to carry them in 99% of the cases.

I was saying the coils would be easy before I got them because the content before that was supposed to be hard and wasn't. People would get on my rear about it and say "well TRY it, you'll see how hard it is".. It wasn't. People were saying Titan was hard as eff, and so many people failed it, which they did.. but after I did it, I realized most people failed it due to lag spikes and timing on Titan that screwed with many peoples server sync, which resulted in parties wiping more often than not.

Every content since then was supposed to be "hard" but it wasn't.. so I hardly doubt the few savage runs I haven't done above ilvl200 is going to be hard either, since there has literally been 20+ examples in the past where people were saying the same thing, and it never ended up being true.

[MistressAthena]

Doesn't matter how much you say quests are not like 11 or battles are not like 11 etc. At the end of the day 11 is no longer like 11, yes 14 needs tweaks and more varied content but still I have had more actual playtime (as in actually doing stuff not standing around shouting for people to join x quest,fight,dungeon,exp,synergy), in the past 3 years than I did in 10 years on 11.

Yes that's why I stopped playing 11, but that's not the point. I was making an example using 11 of why I didn't like some of the mechanics in 14. I wasn't saying that's how 14 should be. It was an example and comparison to explain my opinion.

waxing poetic about FFXI is great sometimes, but if your enjoying the company you keep you need to keep their opinions in mind as well when discussing stuff. On the flipside if people are being unseasonable about your right to have an opinion it's not really a group you should be hanging out with anyways. You really shouldn't force yourself to be silent, but you should also be understanding the opinions of others at the same time.

I don't harp on about it, it was during a discussion, and so I chimed in. I don't bring it up otherwise, and I don't harp on about why I love FFXI either.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Synced isn't the same as originally doing the content. When the content was relevant people were only just hitting the entry ilvl/mid ilvl, so lag spikes on titan savage etc wasn't the only problem. Although lag problems do pop up majority of them are excuses. Amazing how many people don't have lag on titan etc years later when it's easy.

Yes that's why I stopped playing 11, but that's not the point. I was making an example using 11 of why I didn't like some of the mechanics in 14. I wasn't saying that's how 14 should be. It was an example and comparison to explain my opinion.

What is the point in the comparison then? At the end of the day apart from characters, npcs and various niche things from the Final Fantasy series they are both totally different games.

Also why can't people just say I don't like this cause it's crap,boring,stale or any other descriptive word instead of it's not like 11. Shock horror it's not like 11 that's because it's FOURTEEN

Oh and BTW 11 killed relics, mythic and Empyreans multiple times for months on end before updating them to the latest versions. Also all that 75 gear was wiped out in one update and following that all 99 gear was wiped out in another. Then they decided to do exactly what is happening here with ilvls only difference is you need 6 items for each equip slot.

[MistressAthena]

Synced isn't the same as originally doing the content. When the content was relevant people were only just hitting the entry ilvl/mid ilvl, so lag spikes on titan savage etc wasn't the only problem. Although lag problems do pop up majority of them are excuses. Amazing how many people don't have lag on titan etc years later when it's easy.



What is the point in the comparison then? At the end of the day apart from characters, npcs and various niche things from the Final Fantasy series they are both totally different games.

Also why can't people just say I don't like this cause it's crap,boring,stale or any other descriptive word instead of it's not like 11. Shock horror it's not like 11 that's because it's FOURTEEN

The point of the comparison is that I liked it more in that direction, than this one. THere are millions of ways to reach a certain style, setup, mechanic, etc. without copying it 100%. Just because I said for instance, I didn't like FFXIV due to the elevator style progression, but liked 11's more spread out content and leveling, doesn't mean I will ONLY like or be ok with an exactly carbon copy of 11's style. As there are again countless ways to achieve a similar direction without copying it 100%.

Make sense?

Also, people can go into a game, and not like it. Those reasons for not liking it, will generally always have a comparative similarity to other games or products you're using. It doesn't mean that person wants it to be a complete carbon copy of the game they preferred all the time.

Again, you could make a game with spread out progression, and more meaningful crafting at all levels, and not even need to use a single mechanic from 11, and people who didn't like FFXIV for those reasons, may like this new game because of it. They may still compare it too 11 however, because it leans more towards a specific style, even though none of the mechanics, etc. are used or the same.