Something need to be done in how tanks acquiring Provoke

[Centershock]

While it isn't exactly too much of a problem... it's a little baffling that WARs and DRKs get their tanking stance (Defiance and Grit) at lv 30 while PLDs get theirs at 40. (Shield Oath) That can at least stand to be adjusted. (Swap Sword to 40, Shield to 30.) I generally had a better, easier time tanking Brayflox normal as a WAR than I did as a PLD because of this. (YMMV)

And while we're sharing opinions, I'm also of the opinion that they should do away with cross-classing skills altogether. If that was still a thing, then why are there no ROG skills that we can cross-class? Is cross-classing something that the devs are doing away with?

[odintius]

This game is very limited on cross class compare to ffxi were if you lvl 99 your subjob is lvl49 which includes all those jobs spells/traits/abilities up to lvl49 on top of your main job. A ability like provoke were its a tanks own taunt version wouldn't hurt the cross class system at all.

[SendohJin]

And while we're sharing opinions, I'm also of the opinion that they should do away with cross-classing skills altogether. If that was still a thing, then why are there no ROG skills that we can cross-class? Is cross-classing something that the devs are doing away with?

Both, they're not going to add new ones but they're not going to take away what's there.

It's a crap ton of work to do either with little to no actual benefit to the developers or players.

[lvlagmarink]

And while we're sharing opinions, I'm also of the opinion that they should do away with cross-classing skills altogether. If that was still a thing, then why are there no ROG skills that we can cross-class? Is cross-classing something that the devs are doing away with?

Actually, cross classing goad and shade shift are doable, but their affinity is to those of classes, not jobs..

Edit: and death blossom as well., it's funny how the animation works when i used it on my gladiator which equip a shield..

[Centershock]

This game is very limited on cross class compare to ffxi were if you lvl 99 your subjob is lvl49 which includes all those jobs spells/traits/abilities up to lvl49 on top of your main job. A ability like provoke were its a tanks own taunt version wouldn't hurt the cross class system at all.

Did any tooltips in FFXI tell you that some of those skills may be required to run certain dungeons/raids/instances? I think that's one of the main concerns of the OP.

[SendohJin]

Did any tooltips in FFXI tell you that some of those skills may be required to run certain dungeons/raids/instances? I think that's one of the main concerns of the OP.

XI had tooltips? XI never tells you that you need Chainspell Stun from a RDM/DRK to negate an attack you just die (lose XP and delevel) until you figure it out or watch someone else do it.

lots of things in XI may be required if you don't severely outgear/outman the fight. if you outgear a fight in XIV in many cases you won't need Provoke either, you just single tank it and cure through it.

[bass9020]

And while we're sharing opinions, I'm also of the opinion that they should do away with cross-classing skills altogether. If that was still a thing, then why are there no ROG skills that we can cross-class? Is cross-classing something that the devs are doing away with?

Its the devs fault for not enforcing the system more and the players fault for trying to change the system because they can't be asked to leave more than one job. They are so used to only leveling one that having to level more is like a burden. XIV was built around the system and people can't grasp that.

[LineageRazor]

XI didn't tell you anything about anything, really. XD SO much of that game was a black box that the players had to puzzle out for themselves...

For example, folks didn't even really understand the Enmity system until the game was in its seventh year or so, and some players finally cracked the code through exhaustive experimentation against low-level mobs. It turns out that there were two kinds of enmity - a decaying form of enmity, and a non-decaying form that could only be removed by taking damage (for comparison, this game only has one form of enmity, which doesn't decay under any circumstances except death, though some job abilities can affect it). All actions in the game gave you at least a little permanent enmity, and most gave you at least some decaying enmity. There were some surprising discoveries made about certain spells and abilities having unusually high levels of permanent enmity - this lead to the rise of the RDM tank. The discovery that Provoke was almost all decaying enmity (albeit, a whole heckuva lot of it) lead to the fall of WAR as PLD's subjob - they now knew how to better leverage the enmity on their own skills, and no longer needed to depend on WAR's Provoke. By no coincidence, this soon lead to SE stripping enmity off of almost all of the oddball abilities that had it, which pretty much spelled the end for the RDM tank.

But, to be fair, yes, XI DID have tooltips in the form of the scrolling text whenever you had an ability highlighted. They were pretty barebones, though; Sleep, for instance, tells you that it puts the target to sleep. It doesn't mention that a cure will wake it up, or hitting it will wake it up, or a DoT will wake it up, or that the spell itself had scarily high levels of enmity that meant the monster was gonna be REALLY MAD at you once it did wake up...

[odintius]

Did any tooltips in FFXI tell you that some of those skills may be required to run certain dungeons/raids/instances? I think that's one of the main concerns of the OP.

Why yes it was in the form of what were currently using today (text) and other forms of search functions called the internet/people which is still used today amazing right. Though ffxi you actually see that subjob was a thing when examine a player or use search function or once in a 18+ party you notice 18whm/9blm and wonder how they have that you ask a player or search it and come to find it a quest in selbina.

[ADVSS]

either way, doesnt change the fact that drk starts off as a level 30 tank, which gives very little feedback because its only requirement is to have entered ishgard, it doesnt mean a whole lot, but since things like provoke and swiftcast are necessary, that makes them less of a cross=class skill and more of a needs to be implemented. Provoke is pretty necessary to tank, even in dungeons if your dps just wrecks your aggro(were talking about those fresh level 50 dragoons/monk/ninja/bard/whm/blm/smn only players up intill heavensward that picked up dark knight. then through levelling i guess assumed it was ok to let mobs wreck the healer and dps(even an experienced dps should know this shouldnt happen especially by this point). But im not entirely sure how someone even as a dps, with a fc, or communication and access to the novice network wouldnt have been told or asked at this point about this, really. So lets assume the account was bought- That doesnt change the fact they still need it