Patch 3.38 Discussion

[Khalithar]

200>210 was exactly as it should have been seeing as the reward was a raid level weapon, and in some cases a best in slot weapon.

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic. I'm going to go ahead and say it, it being equal to a raid weapon at that early point in the xpac is irrelevant (not to mention the fact that if you were a raider you got the 210 weapon way before the relic was out anyway and since you got it first, people having a 210 weapon later shouldn't matter), the relic steps should have been designed on the time of release, i.e. the first relic steps should have had an incremental difficulty increase from the beginning and gotten harder later. The excessive and painful grind should be saved for the mid to late stages, the earliest stages (up to the 210 point) should have been the easiest out of all them and THEN ramped up as you went to the 230 and to the 240.

[Morningstar1337]

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic.

I think that Mindset can be traced to the ease of getting a raid worthy weapon for 4 relatively easy trials and 1 somewhat hard one, and certain people not liking that.

[Raynar]

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic. I'm going to go ahead and say it, it being equal to a raid weapon at that early point in the xpac is irrelevant (not to mention the fact that if you were a raider you got the 210 weapon way before the relic was out anyway and since you got it first, people having a 210 weapon later shouldn't matter), the relic steps should have been designed on the time of release, i.e. the first relic steps should have had an incremental difficulty increase from the beginning and gotten harder later. The excessive and painful grind should be saved for the mid to late stages, the earliest stages (up to the 210 point) should have been the easiest out of all them and THEN ramped up as you went to the 230 and to the 240.

I concur with you on this.

[Aquaslash]

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic. I'm going to go ahead and say it, it being equal to a raid weapon at that early point in the xpac is irrelevant (not to mention the fact that if you were a raider you got the 210 weapon way before the relic was out anyway and since you got it first, people having a 210 weapon later shouldn't matter), the relic steps should have been designed on the time of release, i.e. the first relic steps should have had an incremental difficulty increase from the beginning and gotten harder later. The excessive and painful grind should be saved for the mid to late stages, the earliest stages (up to the 210 point) should have been the easiest out of all them and THEN ramped up as you went to the 230 and to the 240.

Tell that to the raiding community, who got incredibly butthurt when a similar thing happened with the Zodiac weapon.

can we nerf the Zodiac quests at some point?

If they nerfed it any more they would just give them to you >_>

[Nalien]

If they nerfed it any more they would just give them to you >_>

Might as well with the Light farming aspect... It's a complete joke at this point... At least the Animus books are either a fun solo challenge, or helping with Lv50 dungeon queues... Light farming is just a formality, the final one I'm somewhat OK with given it can be a single run per thing, but the original one? It was a terrible stage originally, now it's terrible-er... A step above FATE farming if only by virtue of the fact that blitzing through a dungeon solo is entertaining at least a few times...

Really hope 4.0 doesn't involve FATE or Light farming... Is it too much to ask for Relic quests to be somewhat epic? You're obtaining/forging a legendary weapon, it should be exciting, not a chore... If forging a sentient weapon doesn't conclude with a solo trial against said weapon, Balrahn style...

[Aquaslash]

Might as well with the Light farming aspect... It's a complete joke at this point... At least the Animus books are either a fun solo challenge, or helping with Lv50 dungeon queues... Light farming is just a formality, the final one I'm somewhat OK with given it can be a single run per thing, but the original one? It was a terrible stage originally, now it's terrible-er... A step above FATE farming if only by virtue of the fact that blitzing through a dungeon solo is entertaining at least a few times...

Light farming was a breath of fresh air compared to dungeon spamming and hoping for Zodiac drops. I did that step after the boosted drop rate ( but long before the automatic drops) and hated it THEN. I would have probably hurled my controller through the TV when it was fresh.

Funny story. While that step WAS fresh, but I wasn't playing the game yet, my nephew was over my house farming snowcloak for a drop. I think he was a couple hours in before I took over the TV in order to play Destiny, of all things. He didn't talk to me for a month after that. I thought it was retarded at first, but I was soon made to understand exactly why he was so assblasted; and in Snowcloak no less.

Seriously, screw that step...and Snowcloak too!</rant>

[Nalien]

Seriously, screw that step...and Snowcloak too!</rant>

Eh, I hated pretty much all the Zodiac quests when they were fresh, with the sole exception of Alexandrite, though I hated the materia step (they're the same? Pfft, I enjoyed getting a map to do for my Relic, wish the Unidentifed items worked on a similar principle; beast tribe currency > get map in their stronghold > fight some trash > get unidentified item). It's pretty much been down hill since Titan, though nowadays? Animus books and the Zodiac drops... I quite enjoy... They're 100% drops so it feels like I'm actually doing a quest, though a lot of my enjoyment stems from the Undersized Party option; Soloing those dungeons ends up being a lot more fun than the new dungeons...

With the Anima quests I can't see the same happening... FATE grinds out right suck the life out of me, the 10 dungeons was probably the best we're getting (even if I can't solo the Vault, I can tank it as Summoner when the DF gets me a non-tank...), Unidentified items are a currency grind... Aetheroil or whatever? Currency grind, though Crystal Tower was a welcome change of pace. Umbrite? Currency grind... These stages aren't going to get better with age like spots in the Zodiac Saga did...

[LineageRazor]

I believe this is the wrong mindset to have in regards to the relic. I'm going to go ahead and say it, it being equal to a raid weapon at that early point in the xpac is irrelevant (not to mention the fact that if you were a raider you got the 210 weapon way before the relic was out anyway and since you got it first, people having a 210 weapon later shouldn't matter), the relic steps should have been designed on the time of release, i.e. the first relic steps should have had an incremental difficulty increase from the beginning and gotten harder later. The excessive and painful grind should be saved for the mid to late stages, the earliest stages (up to the 210 point) should have been the easiest out of all them and THEN ramped up as you went to the 230 and to the 240.

I don't understand this mindset at all. Why does the point in the expansion pack have any bearing whatsoever? Are you saying that the final Relic OR Raid weapon in an expansion pack is somehow "ultimate" in any way? Of course it isn't - it, too, will be rendered obsolete by the next expansion pack, just a few months later.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between the 210 weapon, the 240, weapon, the 270 weapon, and whatever ilvl the first endgame weapon in the next expansion pack will be. They are ALL "ultimate" weapons for the narrow frame of time that they top the list, which means making any of them easy to get is a terrible idea.

I might be willing to grant that they waited too long to apply the nerf to this stage, but for the 210 stage to be as rough as it was was entirely reasonable. It was troublesome enough to get folks enthusiastic about the hellishly difficult Alexander Gordius Savage raids (whether Savage was too difficult or not is a debate for another thread); allowing for an easily-accessed 210 weapon would have been the nail in the coffin.

Bottom line, it's a mistake to think of any stage of the relic weapon to be just another step in the process to some ultimate stage that hasn't been implemented yet. Whatever the final stage is at any given time - THAT is the ultimate Relic weapon.

[Khalithar]

Snip

I do believe that whatever weapon you get at the very end of the relic grind should be special in some way. Now obviously it will be replaceable, but for all the work that went in to it? Then yes I think it needs something special about it visually at the very least on top of whatever title I'm sure will accompany it. I also don't think it's a mistake to view each relic as a step in a process because every relic IS a step in a process towards the next one outside of whatever the penultimate last step is and I do think they should be designed with that in mind. Finally, I still believe that the difficulty curve for the relic should have been a steady incremental climb rather than what they implemented.

The 210 step should have been made easier, the 230 step should have been more difficult, the 240 step more difficult than that, the next ilevel more difficult than that and so on and so forth. There would have been absolutely nothing wrong with them making the 210 an easier step than it was followed by ramping up the difficulty (again, in increments, not exponentially) if you wanted to keep building up that weapon.

[Aquaslash]

The 210 step should have been made easier, the 230 step should have been more difficult, the 240 step more difficult than that, the next ilevel more difficult than that and so on and so forth. There would have been absolutely nothing wrong with them making the 210 an easier step than it was followed by ramping up the difficulty (again, in increments, not exponentially) if you wanted to keep building up that weapon.

At the time, 210 was the max ilvl. It HAD to be brutal. Like the other poster said, Gordias was already tearing the raiding community a new butthole, and you want to undermine them by handing out a welfare 210 weapon several months before the usual catch up patch? That wouldn't be fair to those players.

Granted, they later admitted that entire patch cycle was a mistake and that the gordian weapon should have been 215, but it's not like the way it went down wasn't understandable