Do YOU think we'll get a new Tank and/or Healer in 4.0? And vice versa.

[Windi]

So um... What does this game need in order to balance out the current roster of classes, or what is missing from the current roster? That's a good way to start as far as thinking up new classes and I hope the dev team approaches it in that way.

There is definitely an imbalance of DPS classes and others, but is that imbalance actually creating any harm?

[Fevelle]

...

I also played all FFs.

Mystic Knight is VERY iconic through the series. One of the most memorable jobs, maybe not as much as BLM, but on par with Bard. They were the original user of Magic Sword skills that people always ask in the threads, and it was FFXI's dev team fault to completely break the class apart to create their Red Mage, that has nothing to do with all the other FF's Red Mages. Even with acess to only lower tier spells (not that lower, FFI Red Mage could cast up to lvl.7 spells) Dualcast makes up for it. There's just no reason to make it a tank. Personally, with the current meta, I think RDM would be very well done as a healer, with a good range of offensive spells as well as healing spells.

[Rbstr]

I think the main reason not to make it a healer is that it gets hard to add in the Job's usual weapon proficiency.

Also, as it is with many "job defining" type abilities Dualcast is as often not a red mage thing as it is a red mage thing.
It's Red Mage in V, XI, Tactics and Bravely Second.
Several Red Mages don't have it, notably the first 2 appearances, XII, XIII, Bravely Default.
For non-RDM usage: remakes of IV and after years have it, it was in IX as Vivi's trance, In 4 Heros of Light it's a Sage thing, Lulu in X.
A big strike against it being RDM in XIV is that Nabriales already used it and triple.

Mystic Knight is only in one main numbered game as "Mystic Knight"! That being V (Seems like you're being kinda V-centric).
Even though the SwordMagic/SpellBlade abilities are pretty common. It's Materia Based in VII, a knight's skill in IX. Spell Fencer's in 4 Heroes and Bravely Default...

At any rate, getting too caught up in specific abilities seems pointless. Gotta think broad strokes with regard to most of the jobs.

[Fevelle]

I think the main reason not to make it a healer is that it gets hard to add in the Job's usual weapon proficiency.
(...)
Mystic Knight is only in one main numbered game as "Mystic Knight"! That being V (Seems like you're being kinda V-centric).

Melee weapon combos for MP management. There you have it.

Yes, we are looking at a game supposed to be an ode to FF games, so of course I would look a lot to the game with the most well done job system in the series and where a lot of characteristic abilities had their debut.The dev. team already stated they're not trying to create FFXI-2, so why copy a job from FFXI if you can look back to past FF titles to create the job?

IV remakes are augments, Vivi's Trance gives him the Double Black and also Eiko can Double White because there was no Red Mage in the game. VI Dualcast is also an augment. The thing here is not "who used it the most" but "who made Dualcast iconic as a job characteristic of the series".

At any rate, getting too caught up in specific abilities seems pointless. Gotta think broad strokes with regard to most of the jobs.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this. Not in a themepark game like this one where even big characters from past games like Krile gets thrown into the game. I'm all for jobs like Astrologian: it's a complete original idea utilizing some Time Mage traits, but it doesn't break Time Mage's identity to do it. I also like the idea of the fusion FFXIV brings with Bard and Ranger, but FFXI destroyed a lot of past FF job identities to create their iterations, and I really hope FFXIV team doesn't do the same by making Red Mage (a CASTER) with the tank role.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

HERESY!! Not only are you referring to Mystic Knights as Rune Fencers but also saying that their gear is not memorable!! Sickness must be purged! (and fantasy arabian knight gear must be obtained!)


...

I wouldn't mind getting arabian styled gear, it could even go well with dancer!

[Ryannex]

Realistically, I think that they need too and will incorporate a new tank class for certain. They've tried so hard in the past to get people to play as tanks (mount rewards), but regardless it's always the least played role, and the constant adventurer in need.

In my opinion, they will include a tank that's not a sword wielder to try and interest players. We have three tanks, all of them use swords, and clearly it's not working to grab the interest of the majority. My bet is on red mage being the new tank.

I think we'll likely get two new jobs, but it definately won't be a healer. I honestly can't see how they could incorporate a new healer into the game - as of right now everything is covered. It was hard enough for them to try and figure out a way to balance AST.

So my bets are on there being a 100% chance of a new tank (that won't be using a sword) and the possibility of a new dps.

[Fevelle]

It will be a shock if they announce no new classes for 4.0

[Shurrikhan]

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this. Not in a themepark game like this one where even big characters from past games like Krile gets thrown into the game. I'm all for jobs like Astrologian: it's a complete original idea* utilizing some Time Mage traits, but it doesn't break Time Mage's identity to do it. I also like the idea of the fusion FFXIV brings with Bard and Ranger, but FFXI destroyed a lot of past FF job identities to create their iterations, and I really hope FFXIV team doesn't do the same by making Red Mage (a CASTER) with the tank role.

Not disagreeing on the whole but:
*Original within the series, not the game. Relatively few of the mechanics assigned to the job were of original design.
**This is also a new iteration that can be considered a destruction of job identities. I like it well enough, but people could also say the same for XI NIN tanking. I don't see why a XIV Bard = good and XI alternate job identities = bad.

Realistically, I think that they need too and will incorporate a new tank class for certain. They've tried so hard in the past to get people to play as tanks (mount rewards), but regardless it's always the least played role, and the constant adventurer in need.

In my opinion, they will include a tank that's not a sword wielder to try and interest players. We have three tanks, all of them use swords, and clearly it's not working to grab the interest of the majority. My bet is on red mage being the new tank.

I think we'll likely get two new jobs, but it definately won't be a healer. I honestly can't see how they could incorporate a new healer into the game - as of right now everything is covered. It was hard enough for them to try and figure out a way to balance AST.

Isn't that more a reason to reiterate or broaden what it means to be a tank, or the place a tank holds within XIV, than to simply slap on another tank and assume someone will like the iconics of the job to finally tank? If it offers nothing new and perferable mechanically, it's not going to garner much of lasting userbase.

We have two tanks using swords. The last uses axes. The iconics of a RDM are also more generally associated with a sword than a staff. And, do you really want a staff tank? Similarly, what real difference would a hammer tank make? How would it feel different compared to a Warrior or Dark Knight if 2h or a Paladin if 1h?

There's still plenty to be done with healers. Look at the mechanics of any other game. Sigils, runes, auras, vampirics, buff consumption, buff acceleration, damage delay, periodic damage deceleration, combos, cooldown reduction on related ability use... just to name a tiny, tiny piece of the possibilities.

[Ametrine]

Warrior uses Axes, but, yes, the next tank will likely be swordless.

I would be pretty damn disappointed if we didn't see a 4th healer. We still lack a chemist derivative, and there have been plenty of theories around healers that use other methodologies aside from cast cure, such as dancer being TP based or necromancer's minion to borrow HP from.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to AST getting a rehaul if doing so is what it takes for the job to earn some respect.

[Alacran]

Or we could just make one of the most iconic jobs a Tank, you know one that actually has looked and played the part through multiple iterations throughout the series.


(FFXI)


(FFT)


(FFXI Tenzen)


(FFXI Ayame)


(FFVI Cyan Garamonde)


(FFX Auron)

You can say it doesn't work, that many wont Tank even after leveling the job. I know it did for me, while not a great Tank Im proud to say i made my way through all of 3.0 on my main, Dark Knight.