Miqo'te Male's Place in Society

[RobinMalvin]

In Seekers, we can assume that the Tias play the same role as the females. They can be hunter, cook, fisher, anything that fits their skills and whatever contributes to the tribe. To become Nunh is considered a greatest honor a male can get, so any male born to the tribe will be raised that they will be a Nunh. Generally males can only become nunh by defeating the current Nunh, or if they possess a quality that their tribe puts most importance, which in case of U tribe, strength. But if a male can make great contribution that benefits the tribe greatly, they can also be chosen as nunh. Nunh main job is only to breed, but they can do anything else if they so choose (tho if I'm given hundreds of women, I'm not sure I'd do nothing else xD )

Seekers, on the other hand, live in large tribes consisting of many females, lead by a male .

I seem to recall that leadership of a Seeker tribe is generally given to a female, and since males will only get enough respect from their clan if they're Nunh, I think it's unlikely that any Tia can be a leader without becoming a Nunh first.

For Keepers, post moogle quests tell us that males never live with their family. As children, males and females are taught the same lesson they need to survive like hunting, but with males are also taught that they have to leave their family once they reach puberty. Females take care the household, while males are generally adventurers. I think males can still visit aside for mating purpose, like maybe just for social visit. They just don't linger around in household too long.

Hyur is the only race confirmed to teach their infants to read and write and I know it's discussed somewhere that most people of Eorzea are illiterate. It seems to have changed tho, since Elle from Hildi quest once mentioned that Mythril's Eye newspaper has become well known in recent years. That said, I think Miqo'te parents generally don't teach their children to read except if they believe it's needed for survival.

[PArcher]

I seem to recall that leadership of a Seeker tribe is generally given to a female, and since males will only get enough respect from their clan if they're Nunh, I think it's unlikely that any Tia can be a leader without becoming a Nunh first.

I don't recall it said either way explicitly, but if you look at the naming conventions, its *extremely* patriarchal (females are basically "first name, daughter of Nuhn XXX"), which would mean that a female leader would be unusual, to say the least.

[RobinMalvin]

I don't recall it said either way explicitly, but if you look at the naming conventions, its *extremely* patriarchal (females are basically "first name, daughter of Nuhn XXX"), which would mean that a female leader would be unusual, to say the least.

That will make the nunh automotically the tribe leader which we all know is not the case, except for some rare occurences.

The patriarchal/matriarchal system of Miqo'te only applies to the naming, that is who they consider to be the 'root' of families. Seekers consider males to be the root, hence they put the father's name to the daughter's. Males don't have their father's names but instead they're given titles 'tia' or 'nunh' indicating their position in the tribe. While nunh means 'breeding male', tia seems to mean 'general' or 'other', which in my opinion doesn't sound awe inspiring enough to make them a leader. The two candidates of nunh from U tribe want to be the tribe leader, but they said they can't do that unless they become a nunh, which reinforces my theory that males can only be tribe leader if they're nunh.

[LineageRazor]

The naming conventions may be in part to help cut down on inbreeding. While Seeker males don't keep their father's name, they will probably know who their father IS, and so seeing their father's name on a prospective mate is a good clue that they might want to direct their sister to another Nuhn. XD Keepers have even easier name recognition, and it's even more important, since males wander hither and yon it would be all-too easy for half-siblings to be born and raised far apart from one another, only meeting as adults.

[Cilia]

Put simply...

Seekers: fight for breeding rights as a Nunh. There's one Nunh for every 50-100 females. Note that being Nunh doesn't mean you're the tribe's leader. Otherwise you're a Tia, and expected to fight a Nunh for breeding rights to prove your worth at some point. Otherwise Tia perform similar tasks to the females: hunting and gathering, or else strike out on their own.

Keepers: males have no place in domestic affairs, and wander the land whenever they're not staying with the matriarchal families for short periods of time (and have to bribe their way into doing that much).

... I'd not quite go so far as to say Miqo'te society is misandrist... they're supposed to be based on real-world lion prides, the Seekers anyway... but I can easily see why males would turn to villainy in light of how grossly imbalanced Miqo'te society is.

[Mysterysword]

I thought the U tribe's nunh was their leader. At the very least, I recall talking to a merchant NPC in the area, who complains that the nunh won't allow outsiders to set up shop in Forgotten Springs, which implies that he at least has the power to decide some form of policy wihin the tribe.

I've often wondered how the Miqo'te avoid massive inbreeding. The sheer imbalance in their gender numbers means that by statistical probability alone, one Miqo'te male, whether Keeper or Seeker, would end up fathering a lot of children.

And seeing as how the U tribe only seems to have 1 nunh, this just raises my eyebrow even more.

That said, just because the Miqo'te have a lot of customs and traditions, it doesn't mean they have to follow them, or that they do. Plenty of Miqo'te now live within the cities, and they don't seem to adhere to or care about their traditions.

It's very minor, but I do recall one of the later LTW class quests, probably the lvl. 45 one, in which you craft and deliver equipment to various NPCs around Gridania. One of those NPCs is a Keeper woman, and she's mad that her order has taken so long to be fulfilled, claiming that "my battle-scarred papa" could do better at crafting than you have. There's no real indication of whether "papa" is really her father or just an adoptive one, or if he's a Keeper, but I do like to take this as indication that not all Keeper males are so distant from their daughters and families.

[Yuyuka3]

Keepers have even easier name recognition, and it's even more important, since males wander hither and yon it would be all-too easy for half-siblings to be born and raised far apart from one another, only meeting as adults.

Keeper half-sibilings wouldn't know of each other, though, because the family name is passed down from the mother's side, not the father's. Like, a hypthetical male Mhaccaracca wouldn't have a son or daughter with that surname - the kids would use their mother's. So this would only be an indicator if they had the same mother and different fathers, and then it would be highly unlikely for them to have grown up away from each other. Unless each male keeps book about what females they have children with, I think it is neigh impossible for them to solve the problem pictured here... Besides, It's possible, maybe even likely, that several families have the same family name, but aren't really related to each other. Think about how many Smiths there are out there, for example. I know Keepers aren't a huge people, but the point still stands I think.
Or am I still missing something?


For Seekers, it seems unlikely to me that only males lead tribes. It just doesn't make any sense. Being the strongest doesn't automatically mean you are also the one best suited to lead, and the naming convention thread outright states that nuhn rarely become leaders, making U'odh the exception to the rule. If becoming a nuhn really is only, or mostly, a matter of strength, the male could, in theory, be dumb as a potato, and that's definitely NOT what you want as a leader (tbh, I wouldn't want to have that as a mate, either, lol... but that's not the point here). Besides, there are so few males, it makes more sense to at least include females into possible leadership candidates. It would just be so dumb otherwise...
So I think there has to be more behind that. Maybe Seekers don't care for gender, and really only choose their leader on the basis of ability. That would be the best case in my eyes and would include both nuhns and tias, as well as any female, in the pool of possible leader, so that only the most suited will get chosen. Or running the tribe might be mostly in female hands and the nuhn has a say in some matters, but not all. OR a matriarch and a nuhn decide together. Or, or, or... there are countless of possibilities. PLEASE, let the lorebook actually cover Miqo'te society!

About the matter of education. I think Miqo'te leading a traditional livestyle might not really be highly educated no matter the gender. If it's not necessary to survive, then maybe they just don't see how that would be important. Both genders have to learn how to fight and defend themselfes, though, males if only to one day beat the nuhn. But I think it was pointed out several times by now that there are hints of tias hunting, so... and for Keepers it would be very weird to send your son out to live on his own without him knowing how to survive in the wild. As long as that's not their first test if they are really suitable to breed, that is... but that's a bit too hardcore for my liking and I hope not the case.
Once again, I don't see why tias shouldn't be part of tribe live. the ones in the springs, at least, seem to be well regarded by the females, even teaching one of them how to hunt iirc. For me, that doesn't sound like they are excluded at all.

[RobinMalvin]

...they're supposed to be based on real-world lion prides, the Seekers anyway... but I can easily see why males would turn to villainy in light of how grossly imbalanced Miqo'te society is.

That's the impression I got from Seekers society as well, with one alpha male having the right to breed but the ones doing and leading the hunting are females.

Keepers society looks like how other cats live, living solitary lives especially the males.

The only Mi'qote villains I see so far are all from Keepers. Coeurl King is an anomally among male Keepers, since he seems trying to emulate Seekers lifestyle with him as king instead of nunh. The ones from archer's questline are also Keepers, apparently a group of Keepers who refuse to accept the elemental's law and turned to poaching and banditry to survive, not to mention all of them are females.

What you call imbalance to their society seems for me to be simply a necessity. Their gene pool favors giving them females than males, so their society is based upon the need to keep their race from dying out. Seekers want their next generation to be strong, so the competition for nunh position is to ensure only the strongest to give birth to children. Keepers also the same, but instead of making males compete for the right to breed, they have them wander so no males will compete for females, and potentially spread their race further beyond their territory. It's part of their culture, and like any culture, it's there for good reason. Rebels will still exist, but that's common thing to happen within any culture and that doesn't necessarily make the culture wrong.

Once again, I don't see why tias shouldn't be part of tribe live. the ones in the springs, at least, seem to be well regarded by the females, even teaching one of them how to hunt iirc. For me, that doesn't sound like they are excluded at all.

It seems to me tias can do anything but to breed OR lead, since the male Miqo'te NPCs we see in Springs want to be leader, one of them outright said he wants to open Forgotten Springs to the outsider, something that the current nunh and leader U'odh objects. If he wants to change that rule he has to be a leader, and to be a leader, he has to beat the U’odh first, effectively becoming nunh himself. Leader position may be open to anyone in tribe regardless of gender, but for males, they need to be nunh first.

The naming conventions may be in part to help cut down on inbreeding.

I will refrain from imposing RL rules to fantasy world, especially to a society that is entirely not based on human's society. Their concept of inbreeding or incest may be totally different than ours, with the fact that Y chromosome seems to be a rare trait among them. In my headcanon theory males both Seekers and Keepers will not breed with mother or their sisters from same mother, but others are fair game.

[Niwashi]

the information listed on this very forum for naming traditions actually state that being a nuhn of the tribe does not equate to a leadership role

It's not quite that straightforward, though, because the naming conventions say the title doesn't confer leadership, yet in the only clan we've seen, both the Nunh and the two Tias hoping to take over clearly do equate the "Nunh" title with leadership.

Now, it's possible that's a U-clan specific thing, and not widespread among other Seeker clans, (though it seems a bit odd that an atypical clan is the only one we're directly shown in-game). If the genders are socially separate enough, though, it could also be explained by the Nunh being a leader of the tribe's males, while the (more numerous) females would have their own leader who would generally be regarded as the overall leader of the clan. That would make a Nuhn a leader within the clan, but not generally the leader of the clan.

[Fenral]

The only Mi'qote villains I see so far are all from Keepers.

There's also H'raha Tia (yes, I know ) from the monk storyline who seems to exist just to break the "evil catmen are always Keepers" mold.