How would you change Nocturnal AST to be competitive against SCH?

[_slowpoke_]

Maybe SE should look into that, if you really want to achieve Balance by all three equal opportunity at the main heal and off heal slots.

Uh, but why would you do that? Having semi-specialized healers is a good thing, removing this would not only severely homogenize all healing jobs, but also make the healing meta in this game extremely uninteresting. The problem is not that the main healers can't off-heal, the problem is that we only have one job that is viable for off-healing, and the only other one that could theoretically fill the slot is a broken mess. As I've said multiple times before, it is unlikely this will change before 4.0 (or even later) because a) that's the earliest they can fundamentally redesign Nocturnal AST (since buffs won't cut it), and b) it's the earliest we can get another healing job (though I suspect we'll have to wait way into the expansion for that because SE have said they won't do 3 jobs at once again, and I suspect the first job they do in the next expansion won't be a healer).

[Alistaire]

At the very least start making nocturnal stance boost dps by 5% not just healing potency.

Then add a bane equivalent. Maybe to both stances as a seperate action or just to nocturnal as a seperate cooldown but does something else on diurnal. If nocturnal had bane and diurnal didn't there'd actually be a use for the stance.

Without a pet and without HoTs it'd be hard to balance vs a SCH. It'll never be an exact match, but at least as an astrologian with those changes it woudn't be a complete braindead choice in favor of diurnal all the time.

[Brady672]

I definitely agree that Noct should also increase dps, in fact before being told otherwise I assumed that was the case. And before playing Astro, I assumed that the stance you were in effected what Collective Unconscious would do, like a heavy regeneration in the field or a powerful damage reduction, but instead it's just kind of a weak version of both. I believe the key to balancing Nocturnal is to make both sects unique effect all of their skills as opposed to just their aspected skills.

I really like the OP's idea on Celestial Opposition spreading a noct shield like a Scholar's deployment. Additionally, in Diurnal stance it could do an aoe heal like assize.

For time dilation in noct, perhaps instead of increasing the duration of the shield (this is a good effect for the regen though) it can increase the potency of the shield, which could combo well with the celestial opposition change to deploy a bigger shield.

Regarding the spear, I can only imagine 1 of 2 changes to make it desirable. 1, it can retroactively decrease cool downs of skills, by which I mean if somebody uses blood for blood, and you throw the spear at them it reduces the remaining cool down, or 2nd, it'll increase the duration of any buffs the target gives themselves, like for example giving 10 extra seconds to blood for blood. Either of these would be good, though admittedly it might be too strong

[_slowpoke_]

For time dilation in noct, perhaps instead of increasing the duration of the shield (this is a good effect for the regen though) it can increase the potency of the shield, which could combo well with the celestial opposition change to deploy a bigger shield.

In fact, just make both time-manipulating abilities increase remaining shield potency in Nocturnal, and you'd have a perfect replacement for Deployment Tactics that's also fairly unique to the job, instead of basically copying a skill from SCH.

[AI_wass]

No. Just, no. You shouldn't be blowing valuable cooldowns on something as trivial as regen duration. The apparent lack of synergy is wholly a non-issue. Time Dilation doesn't even net you a second cast of Aspected Benefic. Celestial Opposition at best gets you two extra ticks, and only if it's perfectly timed. You have far better things to do with your duration-increasing cooldowns, like boosting enhanced Balance or Spear uptime.

[technole]

Don't lowball CU, it's not weak at-all. Together with disable you have 20% mitigation for all the heaviest damage in the game like J-Kick, in any stance. What does WHM have mitigation-wise that works on everything?

....still waiting.

Considering CU channeling limitations, it'd be nice if it covered 15y but we all can't have nice things.

AST doesn't need spread. Ever since Noct Aspected Helios was buffed to 120%, which is better than Succor you have enough mitigation that can be re-applied without cooldown. Obviously noct does need some serious help. The largest is access to regen, even if it's limited by cooldown. It's just an arbitrary restriction at this point, considering the other shielding healer has some pet that can spit it out as an AoE every minute. Notice I didn't say access to change sects, they can surely make regen work without the option.

[AlphaSonic]

Remove the MP cost of summoning the fairy.
Make the fairy drain MP while summoned ala MCH/BRD songs.

[randysquirrel]

No. Just, no. You shouldn't be blowing valuable cooldowns on something as trivial as regen duration. The apparent lack of synergy is wholly a non-issue. Time Dilation doesn't even net you a second cast of Aspected Benefic. Celestial Opposition at best gets you two extra ticks, and only if it's perfectly timed. You have far better things to do with your duration-increasing cooldowns, like boosting enhanced Balance or Spear uptime.

Did anyone even say to use TD to extend regen?
TD extends all buffs you've put on, so buffs AND regen under diurnal

@Brady CU is far from weak, the regen potency is three times that of med2, though it lasts half as long.
I think Spear should be changed, but I think the change you suggested, would still leave it in the same position it's currently in. Even if it retroactively affected any buffs the person had active, I still don't think they'd change the rotation based on having those CDs up sooner. With boss jumps and burst phases etc, most people should really have planned out when to use their buffs. I don't think any of the cards should affect people's rotations, tho that's just my opinion. I think it's why balance is favourable as it does nothing but flat increases damage output. Arrow is borderline... most the time it's fine, but I have had a few occasions where people have actually asked me not to arrow them as it means their moves don't quite line up. This is why I think the +crit would be a good replacement for spear as I don't see how their could be a downside for anyone.

[LunaFaye]

from the start they should have implemented astro as a dps class instead of healing class. That whole class/job is pretty much pointless.

[lulunami]

Nerf Scholar if you want competition to the so-called off-healer role. It is beyond broken and overpowered. Increase MP costs for Broil and nerf the fairy's healing potency. SE screwed up by creating the most overpowered job in the game. They cannot even nerf most of SCH's spells because it is shared with Summoner.

Scholar has no downsides. It basically has BLM's unlimited resources plus SMN's mobility.