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  1. #11
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    It's important to have at least one of our combos to not have a DA effect. Otherwise you'd end up having to delay oGCDs in order to ensure that your combo finisher didn't consume DA. Delirium was the best design choice for this out of the three.

    I prefer having Reprisal to having a Storm's Path clone. Reprisal gets more general purpose use, as SP costs you dps to use. The only real downside is that it doesn't see use in fights with magical autos due to the parry requirement.

    We really lucked out with the two best defensive debuffs, given that most AoE damage tends to be magical. The only thing that really needs sorting out is the Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge buff, especially if we end up remaining in the present three tank format in the expansion. But I'd much rather see that debuff go to PLD, unless there's a way of incentivizing NIN to maintain the debuff. I'd like to see PLD/DRK setups become more viable, and that's probably one of the bigger limiting factors.
    (2)

  2. #12
    Player
    Xenosan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,021
    Character
    Goffard Gaffgarion
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 73
    For the future I think some synergy could come from giving PLD a oGCD WS with a Blunt Resistance Down debuff that works for 100% uptime. (maybe the WS itself is considered blunt damage, like a Flat Blade, Pommel Strike, etc). MNK + PLD + DRK could drop Dragon Kick for Bootshine, PLD + WAR + MNK could as well if feeling edgy.

    PLD: add a significant Magical attack to their kit, and DRK a debuff increasing target's magical crit chance+ temporarily. There's some synergy..or rather a perk that WAR doesn't benefit from..

    DPS+ utility should be WAR's bag - and I think they should have other abilities that increase raid DPS as well (like Warcry evantually), but that doesn't mean they should hold a monopoly on it. The fact EYE is 100% uptime (and the reality the next tank is likely SAM, so another slashing weapon), should be an advantage over PLD/DRK DPS+ utility options, but that doesn't mean PLD/DRK shouldn't have any period, imo.
    (0)
    Last edited by Xenosan; 07-26-2016 at 11:10 AM.

  3. #13
    Player
    Cabalabob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,671
    Character
    Gunsa Cabalabob
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenosan View Post
    and the reality the next tank is likely SAM, so another slashing weapon)
    In an interview after heavensward released yoshi said he didn't go with SAM for that expansion because he wants it to be a damage dealer and they needed a tank class so they went with dark knight. So that's not likely at all. But we will be getting another slashing damage dealer.

    I'd say the next tank is likely going to be blue Mage, since red Mage, blue Mage and samurai were hinted at in the anniversary event, if we know Sam is going to be a damage dealer and we assume they're going to go with 1 tank, 1 healer and 1 dps with the expansion, I'd say it's more likely red Mage will fill the healer role and blue Mage will fill the tank role.

    As for a weapon, blue mages have been known to use all sorts, staves, clubs, swords, hand to hand, whips, spears. So the next tank damage type is entirely up in the air.
    (0)
    Last edited by Cabalabob; 07-26-2016 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #14
    Player
    Truefaith87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    324
    Character
    Tama Seiryu
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 80
    Changing my original idea, you all were exactly right that the SP clone would be a bad idea. How about just make it a bit simpler and something we only see one skill of in the game, just make it a short duration Pacify (like shield slam). Would love to see that effect more utilized in the game, at least as an enemy attack. Once more, discuss this possibility, or any ideas as to a way this could work out without becoming some kind of OP thing?
    (0)
    Leader of Tonberry Assassins <STAB!> of Coeurl, a social & light raiding FC.
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    Dreams should be allowed to fly as free as the birds in the sky.

  5. #15
    Player
    Jpec07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    868
    Character
    Matthias Gendrin
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Truefaith87 View Post
    ...would Delirium be more utilized...
    Allow me to rephrase my statement: Delerium is very well-utilized in the DRK rotation, and if it's not, then it should be. Even if you have a MNK in your group, it's still worth using--religiously, even--because its has a higher base potency than any of your other combos without Dark Arts. It shouldn't need any more incentive than that to use, as it is the best combo to rely on while trying to rebuild MP (non-DA Souleater's self-heal can likely be considered negligible). A good DRK rotation will incorporate it, as it maximizes damage output. Maybe during periods of sustained heavy incoming damage you'll want to use Souleater instead, but the default without Dark Arts should be Delerium.

    Sure, the utility component might not be as strong as Rage of Halone or Storm's Path, but that is no excuse to not use it.
    (0)
    __________________________
    A dungeon party with two summoners always makes me egi.

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  6. #16
    Player
    Seku's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    583
    Character
    Seku Halvone
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cabalabob View Post
    I'd say the next tank is likely going to be blue Mage,
    I hope not. If anything I'd say the game is good with 3 tanks as is until they've got DRK and PLD figured out well.

    As for the OP, Delirium is fine as is. If you're not using it when not using DA+SE for your combo, you're messing your rotation up. If anything they should be looking into making Sole Survivor function more akin to it's pvp version for some party utility that functions outside of the MT role and maybe increase amount of hp healed through DA Soul Eater to give DRK some better self recovery options outside of groups.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    Renryuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    226
    Character
    Ren Aiuchi
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    I enjoy Drk well enough as is, though the only suggestion I'd ever give would be one that could apply to Pld as well which is give Drk (and pld) a means to regenerate TP so they don't run out. Warrior got a means to restore TP so now every job in the game except for Drk and Pld have some way to restore their main resource. Sure you can restore MP as both Pld and Drk, but their main combos all use TP while it's mostly oGCD and supportive stuff that use MP. That or maybe make them use MP as a resource entirely since their attacks to seem to be more magical in nature than Warrior's stuff. I dunno, I'm just a no name budding Drk so no one would care about my thoughts, but I figured I'd express them all the same.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,899
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    @ Renryuu

    Quote Originally Posted by Renryuu View Post
    I enjoy Drk well enough as is, though the only suggestion I'd ever give would be one that could apply to Pld as well which is give Drk (and pld) a means to regenerate TP so they don't run out. Warrior got a means to restore TP so now every job in the game except for Drk and Pld have some way to restore their main resource. Sure you can restore MP as both Pld and Drk, but their main combos all use TP while it's mostly oGCD and supportive stuff that use MP. That or maybe make them use MP as a resource entirely since their attacks to seem to be more magical in nature than Warrior's stuff. I dunno, I'm just a no name budding Drk so no one would care about my thoughts, but I figured I'd express them all the same.
    As it stands, DRK's TP can outlast most melee dps despite their having Invigorate, iirc. Its TP costs are less than that of a Monk (especially if said Monk uses Fracture, which he almost certainly will), and decrease even further as it gains attack speed through its abilities (Blood Weapon). And it shows. My 2.00 GCD Monk takes about 35 seconds, I think, to need its first Invigorate, and bottoms out in less than 3 minutes unless I weave in Meditations for Purification. My 2.40 GCD DRK can go for 5 minutes+. I could see giving PLDs a means to this, or just making all its finishers cost 50 TP (instead of only the one that would only be spammed in an AoE situation... which is when the PLD least needs TP anyways, because of Flash...), but DRK just really doesn't need it.

    tldr; if you really want to level the playing field, drop Heavy Swing to 60 TP, Rage of Halone and Royal Authority to 50, increase Goring Blade to 60, and give Inner Beast and Fell Cleave a 50-60 TP cost and Decimate and Steel Cyclone 70-90 TP cost. Reduce or even remove the MP costs of Oaths and Grit, reduce the time lost to swapping, or provide some new bonus to balance out the current mana and time costs.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    Renryuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    226
    Character
    Ren Aiuchi
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Ah I did not know, as I said, I'm a newbie to the tanks so I'm ignorant to longevity beyond what I see on forums and stuff. Forgive me.
    (1)

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