My opinion on endgame gear progression : DRK i225, 4th month of subscription

[Moomba33]

Personally I think it's better for the game for there to be multiple options to get high end equipment than for one source to be the unquestionable best.
Do I need i240 equipment to run dungeons? Not really. But it feels great to upgrade my character and see myself able to beat the content I do run faster.
I could use the same argument to say that the top tier content shouldn't reward gear since you clearly don't need it if you're able to beat the content.

Back at launch the tomestome equipment (mythology) was the same ilevel as the raid equipment (Binding Coil of Bahamut) with both being i90. Later the Bahamut weapon was bumped up to i95 to be better than the Relic Zenith, and future tomestone equipment required upgrades to match raid gear with the upgrade items initially being locked to the raid itself then released elsewhere in a catch-up patch. To me this would seem to be a compromise from SE to let raiders get ahead during progression patches and let everyone else catch up the patch after.

[Exidrial]

Let me explain to you how I experienced this game. Keep in mind that I've only been playing for 4 months. I don't know much about the games update cycle when it come to equipment.

I levled from 1-50. Got the (what was it..i90?) stuff from the class quest.Then a few days later i was i120 (didn't own heavensward at this time.) This was ~1.5 months into the game.
Then i levled from 1-60.Once I hit 60 I was around i150 or something? The stuff you get from the dungeons.Not even a week after I was i200 because I bough sky pirate stuff.
Now I'm working on my i240 stuff.

See, there wasn't much to do.I barely did anything and already almost got the best equipment in the game.Why is it so easy?So fast?
Why do people need catch up patches like that? Raiders should, at all times, have the best equipment in the game. If there is a period in which the same gear is possible to get with much less effort then there's almost no point in raiding.
At least not for those people that just joined the game.

Personally I think it's better for the game for there to be multiple options to get high end equipment than for one source to be the unquestionable best.
Do I need i240 equipment to run dungeons? Not really. But it feels great to upgrade my character and see myself able to beat the content I do run faster.
I could use the same argument to say that the top tier content shouldn't reward gear since you clearly don't need it if you're able to beat the content.

Back at launch the tomestome equipment (mythology) was the same ilevel as the raid equipment (Binding Coil of Bahamut) with both being i90. Later the Bahamut weapon was bumped up to i95 to be better than the Relic Zenith, and future tomestone equipment required upgrades to match raid gear with the upgrade items initially being locked to the raid itself then released elsewhere in a catch-up patch. To me this would seem to be a compromise from SE to let raiders get ahead during progression patches and let everyone else catch up the patch after.

Why should I even bother doing hard content if there is an easier way of getting the equipment?
Doing Savage is not just "Yeah lets do savage for some lolz!". You have to work for it, find a party that works, then learn the fights, probably wipe a million times in the process. While I consider this fun (yeah even wiping, love hard contnet) it is hard to stay motivated if the reward is not making up for the hard work you put into it.


If everybody was just doing it for the fun then why are there even levels and equipment in the first place?

Yep you got it. We're doing it for the upgrades.How would you feel if you worked hard with your team to get something, and a few months later some random dude just comes by, rolls his face on the keyboard and gets the same stuff you worked so hard for?

As a new player I just don't see a point in raiding.

[RamothElggur]

I kinda disagree with the statement that" Raiders do not have better gear".
At the beginning of a new endgame Raid the only way to get 240 gear is through the "endgame Raid" . that also includes upgrade items. 3 Months later they are releasen a so called "catch up patch" where u can get the upgrade items outside of the Raid , except the uprade for the Tomestone weapon. Relic is just a grind and the relic will "never" be on par with the latest raid weapon which they made clear at one point in an Interview which is good because u can get it pretty damn easy, just a bit of time investment and you are done.

In my personal Opinion it is "not" worthless to do endgame Raids because u can achive 240ish gear within weeks when the new stuff gets released. the Tomestone gear u can get is kind of ok. hurray you can get full 240 once the catch up patch gets released, but 50% of that gear has bad a Stats which is not even worth getting while the people who are Raiding getting the BiS Pieces they are looking for if they put the effort into doign the Raids

besides after like 3 Months the dedicated Raiders normally have everthing cleared or at least shortly after the catch up patch

So for those people the "Catch up Patch" is as much worthless as your own opinion of getting gear easy once 3 months have past etc. simply becaus they already are 240 already or close to that etc.
And yes Raiders have better gear , same item level maybe but the correct pieces which gives the the most benefits, look at the Lore gear 90% of the gear has a shit ton of Acc which u dont need at all. with the gear from the Raids u can optimize your gear better. a mix between Raid gear and Tomestone Gear for "best in Slot" was always the case ever since "Realm Reborn", plus beeing full 240 Tomestone pretty much shows other people that you are not Raiding, this is nothing special. Gear is no excuse for beeing a good Player. besides most people, as much as they want the gear, 99% are doing it becaus they " enjoy it". They like the Challange and i personally think that it is fair for those people to get rewarded with way better ger or weapons.


now to the Point of boredom : If u personally think that there is nothing much to do other then daylies etc. either u have not tried out other stuff or not even attempted to give raid a shot, or u are simpyl burned out and you need a break.

every one has a different opinion/ statment on that which is totally fine.

PS: the people who are Crying about getting everything shoved into the butt, a Scrub is a Scrub ....Gear and other stuff will not Change that.
And i highly doubt that they will Change this Game into a "Pay to win" RPG by implementing gear into the mogstation that gives u a boost of god knows what. the moment they do that they can turn this game into "Free to Play" by all means and i doubt that they would do that, Mog station has cosmetic stuff and they will stick to that, plus it would sort of Ruin SE's reputation.



Edit:

As a new player I just don't see a point in raiding.

One problem, probably for you: you pretty much joined the game when there was already a "catch up patch" etc. so no surpise to me that you could upgrade so fast tbh.
Wait until 3.4 comes Out and tell em again that you can gear up fast. If u do NOT do raids or primal fights at all ( which i assume considering u told us that u still have 210 weapon etc.) it will take you 3 Months to get the highest item level gear while people who are doing the raids etc. are already way ahead of you. and as i said earlier: Having full max ilvl tomestone gear does not mean that you have the best gear possibloe becaus that is not true. And you are no where even with Raiders, there are many other factors alongside Gear that makes Raiders better then your Avarage Gamer in FFXIV

[Ragology]

Since the cycles are fairly short, it feels like the gear isn't worth scrambling for. If the cycles were longer though it might feel like content drought.

I guess they could add more content to be run with the current gear levels, but since people seldom run content when there's no progression involved, I'm not sure what it would take to keep players running the content.

[Moomba33]

Why should I even bother doing hard content if there is an easier way of getting the equipment?
Doing Savage is not just "Yeah lets do savage for some lolz!". You have to work for it, find a party that works, then learn the fights, probably wipe a million times in the process. While I consider this fun (yeah even wiping, love hard contnet) it is hard to stay motivated if the reward is not making up for the hard work you put into it.

I don't view hard modes as requiring any reward besides fun honestly. I'm not the type of person to bother with hard modes in any game.

[Exidrial]

Wall of text. Read post #13 on page 2

I get what you mean but finding a party to do savage with is hard. I WANT to do raids. I really do. I mean I even stated that I find wiping fun.I REALLY enjoy challenging content.
But you can't just go around being like "YO dudes, you you and you ! You wanna do Savage?" and expect them to be like "Yo man, I'm totally down for that! LETS ROCK!"

uh uh, you'll have to find people first.Whenever I approach people they are like "no offense dude but try to find a learning group first" or "SAVAGE?! I don't do that kind of stuff. Don't have time for that / it's too hard"

The thing with selling equipment was a joke, just to clarify.Don't want to cause a huge misunderstanding.

[mp-please]

Why is it so easy?So fast?

Maybe because you started gearing up so late in the patch? If you finished leveling back on 3.2 all you could get would be a i230 piece and a i220 piece every 1/2/3/4 weeks depending on what it was (1 acc, 2 gloves/hat/shoes, 3 tome body/legs, 4 midas body/legs). All you could get back on 3.2 was a token from each floor of alex midas, 450 lore to either buy a accessory or save for a left side piece or wait 7 weeks to get a i230 weapon, which still can't be upgraded to i240 without running savage.

I've raided throughout 2.x and 3.1 so i went through 4 gear changes, i'm really neutral about this gear aspect because it doesn't really matter since you're meant to mix tome with raid gear. However, depending on your raid luck you might not get a single piece of gear upgrade so you can finish the bis gear for your class so you get that chance once odd patches come up.
A good example, me and a friend raided throughout 2.4. He didn't get a single piece of gear from fcob. And this was before tokens were invented and without tome gear he would've been a liability and would've been kicked but thanks to them we kept him up.

[Exidrial]

The Carch up patch thing is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. When gearing is so much fun to people, why are they making it such an easy grind?
I'd at least wish the content was a bit harder.

It's leaving me with an usatisfied feeling.i240 equipment isn't special in my eyes. I only know the game being this way. It's draining fun out of the game for me personally.

Maybe I'm feeling like this because I'm missing the midcore content to fill the void until I've found a Savage group.

[Remus]

And SE thought Raid Finder will increase Raid population... lol. Don't worry OP I understand how you feel. This is like the only MMO where everyone pretty is the same strength even if you raid or not and i find it silly too be honest. You can say challenge all you want but sadly majority of people when they look at raids is the loot. You raid to get a challenge and earn the best pieces of loot but in this MMO that isn't really the case sadly. If they continue to design in a way that people can just wait till the catch up patch then of course people are not going to raid they will just see it as a waste of time and effort.

The simple fact is: FFXIV Raids (Savage) don't stand out anymore.

They did in coil because there was a story with it and there was no normal mode so people were either forced to do it or go youtube. Now that they added Normal mode people don't need to do the actual raid so Savage pretty much died because loot hardly lasts and people aren't going to wipe a million times for an extra 5 ilvl on their weapon when they are in catch up patch period also they messed up with A3S and that left a horrible taste in the raid communities mouth and most people left. Now SE is trying to bring the raid community back but so far haven't done a good job. I believe in a Live Letter the Level 5 CEO pointed it out that Savage right now isn't appealing and they need to fix it somehow.

The way they design this game gear wise with ilvl and catch up patches raids don't fit well into it at all. They have patches every 3-4 months so if your not a hardcore raider chances are you wouldn't even have your raid set yet before the catch up patches then people do new 24 man and lose motivation to raid.

[Lisotte]

You raise some valid points but I do take umbrage with one statement that seems to have sprung up in a lot of post-WoW players.

"The relic grind is annoying not hard." You're not going to agree with me at all, but not all difficulties are the same kind of difficulty. EX primals and savage raids are hard as hell but once you follow someone's guide and solve the puzzle well enough to complete it you just grind it, farm it. Lots of difficulty up front then you just need to be attentive.

On the other hand, while the anima weapon is INDEED a grind, having the dedication to pick away at it for months is a hard thing to do that many people choose not to. Especially since at no time is it required to do it, you could save so much time just getting a lore weapon which isn't far worse than a 230 anima, and is fine for getting into raiding with. Besides soon you'll get an item to upgrade that 230 lore weapon to 240.

So why then is there a real point to getting a relic? If it's just annoying to get then why would anyone do it considering lore weapons and primals weapons do fine? The answer is that actually having dedication to do this thing normal people don't is a challenge and you feel a real sense of achievement for completing it. When I see someone with a 230 or a 240 relic I can respect someone who put in the work to get that shiny thing. That's different than the person with the raid weapon who completed challenging content months ago.