Job Recommendation: Paladin Tanking and Area of Effect

[RLofOBFL]

If it's just aggro for Aoe, they could make it so everytime you block, the enemy you blocked's aggro goes up equivalent to a savage blade. Doesn't break anything & is very simple. Though it wouldn't work on sprites or other enemies with magical Auto Attacks, but they aren't very common anyway.


Mainly they need to overhaul Circle of Scorn, it is VERY weak & adds very little aggro until it has fully ticked, which by then the DPS are already caught up, so I think it should be front loaded instead of a DOT. Boom solution at no balance cost.

[Raim]

I think its more about damage than aggro generation. Paladins can maintain aggro with modest use of Flash and cycling Goring Blade. The problem is that by the time you've put Goring Blade on two targets the other two tanks would have put out like 600+ potency on all targets with their AoE. I know people are going to harp on forever about how Paladin is the defensive tank and their lore, but honestly game balance is more important than any lore concept for a class and people need to accept that. The Paladin's defensive capabilities aren't even that noticeable in comparison when the other two factor in Bloodbath and DA+Abyssal Drain for self healing which also provide enough mitigation each pull. This is all assuming the healer chooses to DPS in the first place. If the healer doesn't DPS despite the Paladin taking (slightly) less damage then thats not much benefit at all. They need to consider augmenting what Paladin already has (Shield Swipe, Scorn, Flash).

[Shurrikhan]

If it's just aggro for Aoe, they could make it so everytime you block, the enemy you blocked's aggro goes up equivalent to a savage blade. Doesn't break anything & is very simple. Though it wouldn't work on sprites or other enemies with magical Auto Attacks, but they aren't very common anyway.

Except that it's both unrealiable and niche. Aren't those issues we're trying to fix?

Flash is in itself decently strong when the blind can provide mitigation. Unlike all other tank AoEs, it can also be used without breaking CCs because it has no damage. Its main issues are simply that there are so many things immune to its blind, that it has no advantage outside of enmity while the blind is still active, and that it doesn't scale with Fight or Flight.

Mainly they need to overhaul Circle of Scorn, it is VERY weak & adds very little aggro until it has fully ticked, which by then the DPS are already caught up, so I think it should be front loaded instead of a DOT. Boom solution at no balance cost.

Actually, it's the DoT component that adds very little aggro. The initial hit has a 3.0 (or 3.5 now?) enmity modifier. The DoT portion has none. In other words, the DoT only contributes 1/3 of the total enmity, despite having 3/5s of the damage.

Over time it's also identical in strength to perfect uptime (and full health use) on Shield Swipe and Spirits Within, while being far easier to perfect atop being the only one that can AoE.
Essentially, it's already the strongest ability (not weaponskill, ability) that you have.
And.... it's the last oGCD attack you get; any attempts to fix AoE threat through it won't come until level 50.

Just having Flash scale with Fight or Flight, slightly increasing its enmity, and/or giving Shield Oath light reflect damage (against all attacks as not to be niche, even if decreasing with range) would go plenty far in granting AoE threat. The only issue among those would be if one wanted to tank an AoE pull in Sword Oath for some reasons, in which case putting so much strength into solely Shield Oath would be problematic for that option.

[TankHunter678]

Early tanking as PLD is painful due to a lack of tank stance at the same level every other tank gets their tank stance. So swap Shield and Sword Oath position in the leveling.

Now one thing that could be done (though it would be a bit of homogenization) would be to make a PLD version of Dark Arts. Holy Prayer (or something) that makes certain skills get extra effects, such as making Circle of Scorn do all of its damage upfront (greatly boosting its enmity generation), Rage of Halone turns into a high power cleave, Flash becomes a PLD version of Holy with enmity generation instead of stun.

[Klamor]

From this page:

For centuries, the elite of the Sultansworn have served as personal bodyguards to the royal family of Ul'dah. Known as paladins, these men and women marry exquisite swordplay with stalwart shieldwork to create a style of combat uncompromising in its defense. Clad in brilliant silver armor, they charge fearlessly into battle, ever ready to lay down their lives for their liege.
To be a paladin is to protect, and those who choose to walk this path will become the iron foundation upon which the party's defense is built.

Nothing there says anything about "holy" anything, and the use of White Magic regardless of the particular spell named Holy doesn't imply the Knight's holiness either. What it does say, is that they marry "exquisite swordplay" with stalwart shieldwork. So far, we kind of see the shieldwork in play with being able to use a single reactionary ability called Shield Swipe. I suppose you could say that we add in the swordplay with the 50 potency attack that follows Auto-attacks, but can we really? Paladins have generally been more of a defensive and reactionary style of tank that uses its defensive posture to deflect and return blows aimed at them or their party. Our damage could be improved by way of adding more retribution-style damage. (a) Shield Spikes or similar aura, (b) Riposte damage when blocking/parrying (but WAR/DRK parry as well), (c) cleave affects for Rage of Halone (possibly Royal Authority as well), (d) enemies blinded by Flash take additional damage from Circle of Scorn.

[Alistaire]

If it's just aggro for Aoe, they could make it so everytime you block, the enemy you blocked's aggro goes up equivalent to a savage blade. Doesn't break anything & is very simple. Though it wouldn't work on sprites or other enemies with magical Auto Attacks, but they aren't very common anyway.


Mainly they need to overhaul Circle of Scorn, it is VERY weak & adds very little aggro until it has fully ticked, which by then the DPS are already caught up, so I think it should be front loaded instead of a DOT. Boom solution at no balance cost.

All of these wonky solutions that wouldn't even do anything half the time and could be broken the other half, when all that needs to happen is add damage to flash. Then PLD will be very close to what DRK does in dungeons and close enough to WAR that you could call it relatively balanced.

[Rawrz]

All of these wonky solutions that wouldn't even do anything half the time and could be broken the other half, when all that needs to happen is add damage to flash. Then PLD will be very close to what DRK does in dungeons and close enough to WAR that you could call it relatively balanced.

>:C I still think adding enmity and a regen on shield oathed clemency, would create a uniqueness over the other classes, but that's not what pallys really want. They want those free aoe numbers. xD More DPS for the party from the healers or an easier time opening in sword oath after buffing yourself with the aggro regen, makes more sense to me. <3

Clemency

Can only be used under the effect of Sword Oath or Shield Oath

While under the effect of Shield Oath:
Restores target's HP Cure Potency : 600
Also grants healing over time effect while generating high enmity to surrounding targets. Cure Potency of 200 to target for 18s.

Additional Effect: Restores to self 50% of HP restored to target if target is a party member.
Cast time: Instant
MP cost: 2121 MP.

While under the effect of Sword Oath:
Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 1200.

Cast Time: 2 seconds.
MP cost: 1060

While under the effect of Tempered Will, Clemency cannot be interrupted, except by attacks that are not affected by Tempered Will. Damage cannot cancel the cast of Clemency, so long as the effect is active.

This is something I'd like to see, ALONG with something to help with the AOE DPS (like a DoT on flash.)

[Cakekizyy]

This would mean that Paladin no longer has a single target pull ability, however, which every tank has (Tomahawk and Unmend are the equivalents for WAR/DRK). DRK does have something that works like this though, in Abyssal Drain, so it's within the realm of possibility that PLD could get a "Shield Ricochet" ability in the future.

What about aoe effect only hitting mobs already on enmity list?