Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[AutoWhit]

taking up a spot that would be more suited for a person that already has there weapon.

What, exactly, do you mean by this? Cuz I guarantee you once I've done a fight 2 or 3 times I know it, and I'll be better WITH my 210 weapon than a lot of people that, in your eyes, are "more suited" with their better weapons.

Just because I don't farm your Ex-Primals, or do your savage raids you think I don't care about getting better gear? You are very mistaken. I care....it just takes me longer than "leetists" like you, that probably have a static team that raids 4 times a week, and has the new content cleared in a few weeks. I'll go at my own speed thank you.

[Pheryx]

There is far bigger problems then players having 210 weapons, lol
Past few days i have been tanking.... as Ninja.
Do not know what it is lately with the amount of bad tanks and even some dps
I do give out a big Kudos to the healers

Had a similar thing happen. I tanked two of the bosses as a nin in amdapor keep hard.

[Greedalox]

it just takes me longer than "leetists"

There's that word again! We really should try having civil discussion instead of calling anybody you disagree with an elitist. It deters from thoughtful conversation.

On point though, you are mistaking iLvl for skill. Raising the iLvl requirements on certain content wouldn't stop "my own pace" players from getting in because getting gear in this game is a grind at best and not actually oriented towards skill, it would however stop "my own pace" players from not only going in minimally geared, but coupled with that they don't have a strong grasp of their class or the game would they would be dead weight. By having a higher iLvl requirement, less than stellar players can contribute beyond making "leetist" claims.

[AutoWhit]

but coupled with that they don't have a strong grasp of their class or the game would they would be dead weight. By having a higher iLvl requirement, less than stellar players can contribute beyond making "leetist" claims.

...and there you are generalizing. You seem to be suggesting that if people aren't at a certain ilvl they don't have a strong grasp of the game or their job/class. I'm simply saying that this is wrong. I've seen plenty of players with much better gear than I playing like they just bought their account yesterday, and I have played with numerous players over the years, in more than a few mmos, that are "casual types" in less than the newest gear outplay those latest geared players in every way.

I'll take players with lower ilvl that can stay alive and learn fights quickly over someone that has better gear but is clueless any day.

[Greedalox]

...and there you are generalizing. You seem to be suggesting that if people aren't at a certain ilvl they don't have a strong grasp of the game or their job/class. I'm simply saying that this is wrong. I've seen plenty of players with much better gear than I playing like they just bought their account yesterday, and I have played with numerous players over the years, in more than a few mmos, that are "casual types" in less than the newest gear outplay those latest geared players in every way.

I'll take players with lower ilvl that can stay alive and learn fights quickly over someone that has better gear but is clueless any day.

But that's the thing, more skilled players will have to get the gear too, so where's the loss because it's never bad to have more gear? The point is to make the lowest common denominator not such an anchor, not the highest. We've already determined that you can't affect terrible players without doing the same to those who grasp basic fundamentals and vice-versa, but you can diminish the lack of relevance someone having zero sense of their class would have in a group.

This thread boils down to - "Muh ice mages, ZDPS Healers and personal playstyle" and "Muh bad groups", so SOMETHING's gotta give outside of just bickering that someone has to take a hit for game health. So like I said, increased iLvl requirements hurts noone outside of waiting a bit more, and helps EVERYONE in the long run.

"I'll take players with lower ilvl that can stay alive and learn fights quickly over someone that has better gear but is clueless any day."

Wouldn't anyone? The problem is we don't get a checkbox asking to be paired with players who go above and beyond hitting random buttons while watching Netflix.

[KarstenS]

But that's the thing, more skilled players will have to get the gear too, so where's the loss because it's never bad to have more gear?

You know that people sometimes plays a different class than their main?

I like to play diffent classes outside of the raid. But after getting the BiS tome peaces for the job I do raid with, I've stopped capping my tomes at all. My alts only get gear out of Alex normal, Mhach (I run it only once a week and if I get no item, than I get no item this week) and stuff out of Savage, when no one need it for the raid job anymore.

And even with that crappy gear, I was always within the top 3 DPS in our funny City of Mhach.

[Greedalox]

You know that people sometimes plays a different class than their main?

And even with that crappy gear, I was always within the top 3 DPS in our funny City of Mhach.

"SOMETHING's gotta give outside of just bickering that someone has to take a hit"

Congrats! You're a great player playing a game who's Devs cater to the very worst and in one regard the very best (Savage.) You'll still be able to play in content on alts, just get some more gear.

[WeekendSoja]

You all just saw Greedalox's post with red in your eyes lol.

@Autowhit. Greedalox's was saying that the iLvl requirement will not stop poor performance. In this case you are looking at their statement to generally whereas I see it in a more specific stand-point of. "Higher iLvl may not stop poor performance, but their performance will be better than a lower iLvl doing the same performance." This doesn't lock you out of content, send a tell and ask the leader. Only risk you put yourself in by asking to join at a reduced ilvl is intense scrutiny if you mess up.

@KarstenS. I bet any player that has basic knowledge can perform exceptionally in 24-man content. That content is just a cesspool of underachievers with above average gear due to tome farming.

[AutoWhit]

You all just saw Greedalox's post with red in your eyes lol.

@Autowhit"Higher iLvl may not stop poor performance, but their performance will be better than a lower iLvl doing the same performance."

My point is that 2 players performing at the same level, according to you even if it's poorly, comes down to gear. Now, if you have someone that DOES have higher iLvL, performing at the same level as the person that in your eyes doesn't have a full grasp of their class because their iLvL is lower, would you not take the person at the lower iLvL? They are apparently playing at the same level as the person with better gear, which to me means they are by far a better player.....the player with better gear should have a better grasp of their class/job, yes? Isn't that what was implied? If so, it's nonsense.

Gear has nothing to do with performance. That's my point.

[Greedalox]

Gear has nothing to do with performance. That's my point.

Asinine. Having gear and doing your rotation terribly will still put out higher numbers than terrible gear and terrible rotation. Your Medica 2 and Regen spam will heal more and your lack of CD tank will still take less while being able to receive more.

Yes, it's true that gear isn't everything (Not by a long shot, but bottom line players need all the help they can get), but I never said it did either so I don't get why you keep bringing it up. You're still making it sound like not being paired with terrible players with good gear instead of great players with bad gear is a mental issue than can be solved by wishing hard enough when you hit "Join" in queue.