Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Kerii]

Are we really having am argument about Blizzard 3 and Transpose right now?

I can understand TC procs and viability of Surecast. But the uses of B3 and Transpose seem like a no brainer.

My point is that is that it's a completely insignificant difference in terms of performance. We're talking losing one or two "ticks" each rotation in content where you don't actually need to play at 100% to succeed. To be precise, I'm saying that it's a completely petty and pointless reason to ditch a group.

[self_riot]

This topic is going in circles or going into specifics. I've said my piece and heard other folks' opinions. I might still be a stubborn fool who's way too care free when it comes to games, but I will concede and understand WHY it can be frustrating for folks to have bad players.

Maybe there will be a way to make DF better for everyone, but for now, I think it's about making do with what you have.

Hope we can all learn something out of all this, have a good one ya'll. o/

[Vnecat]

Whilst I understand your frustration with wanting to get on with things without hassle, the reality of the situation is that you can't always tell what's happening on the opposite end of a keyboard. Yes, there are indeed many players who sometimes don't even try to put half of the effort that you yourself put in and sadly there always will be players like that, but I think we're at a point where it's better to just assume that you're not going to get a flawless run in the Duty Finder anyway. That doesn't mean I look the other way to genuinely lazy players; I could literally give you a list of my most recent examples where I could've torn my own hair out from the sheer frustration - but honestly, the point is that it's really not the end of the world. Chances are you won't even see those same players again, so just take a deep breath and let it go over your head.

[Kerii]

... it's really not the end of the world. Chances are you won't even see those same players again, so just take a deep breath and let it go over your head.

I think that's the best attitude you can have. If it's manageable, or at least salvageable, just roll with it and move on. A lot of players make big deals out of insignificant things which only makes the game that much worse.

[Crysten]

For a person who is claiming that reading comprehension is the reason for that particular mistake... you sure can't read very well. "Where does the game tell you that you should use Blizzard III instead of transpose, which it had you use for the first 37 levels?" It doesn't. The reason you use Blizzard III is that it regenerates mp faster, and it makes the next fire cast faster. Transpose offers a different benefit. It is cast instantly and trades AF for a single UI as it's cost. That means that there are actually situations where you should use it instead, such as when you're about to move and don't have time to stand still for three seconds. My point was and still is that it is "Meta" (Read as the optimal thing to do), and isn't common knowledge gained simply through reading a tooltip.

The above implying that from level 37 to level 60, a player's thought process goes like this:

"Neat, I got a new spell. Wonder what this does and how this helps me...actually nah, ain't nobody got time for that" rather than taking 30 seconds on a mob to realize "oh hey, Blizzard III works like Fire III but backwards! That's kinda handy!"

Feel free to argue the DPS benefits of using Transpose over Blizzard III on any single target mob in an expert dungeon but to me, I smell an apologist.

The former kind of player is exactly who I'm perfectly inclined to ditch. If you feel that's petty, then more power to you.

[Normalizer]

the point is that it's really not the end of the world. Chances are you won't even see those same players again, so just take a deep breath and let it go over your head.

It was mentioned in many posts before, that we should strike to try improve the whole player base. Cause if you take a deep breath and just shrug it off, there will be time when you won't be able to breath normally anymore, when under-performing becomes the norm on DF. Your suggestion is the same as some of the posters who tell people to just go play on PF or with friends, or transfer to JP server, or just quit the game, while they're valid solution, they are not really helpful

[Reinha]

Blizzard III straight up tells you what it does in the tool tip. It's pretty transparent compared to figuring out thunder III procs over fire IV. It's basic reading comprehension and understanding versus theorycrafting and number crafting here.

To be honest, if you don't understand something despite it being handed to you in a tool tip, it's kind of a poor practice, not just in games but anything in general.

Compare this to a BLM level 60 that does nothing but blizzard I, bonus points if they are doing it intentionally. Even now people are still not getting the point of making a reasonable judgement of what people want to see in DF. No one is asking for perfection or being good at the game, but understanding the fundamentals of the game and the basics of your job. Everytime someone feels the need to rebuke that bolded sentence, I feel like they want us to just shove off to make a PF without people like that, and essentially encourage that sort of mindset in DF .

And do we want to encourage this mindset? Not reading is a pretty piss poor practice and really won't get you far in anywhere, not just in this game.

Some people have difficulty understanding the basics of life. It's not as rare as you think. I've met so many grown up people who don't get that if you add 20% to a price and then take away 20% it's not back to the original price. So it's no wonder you meet people who have difficulty understanding the basics of a game where rotations are highly dependent on potencies (not to mention positionals, I had to google what "flank" meant when leveling lancer and I got pictures of meat ). Sometimes it's intentional, sometimes it's not. The fact is, random matchmaking was created to allow those players to play the game so that they may fund the development of the game. Another fact, you are going to run into them if you choose random matchmaking. The question is: what should be done about it?

Segregate them via an automatic system, like suggested in the other thread? This would create several problems some of which also affect good players. Quitting people stop funding the game. Sub-par people don't get guidance from experienced players and have an even harder time getting better (lots of people claim they give random people civil advice, well say goodbye to that). People don't see how well it's possible to play and never meet raiders so the raiding community dwindles. Upon this kind of a system's implementation new people would get rated on their learning steps whereas veterans would begin to be rated once they've already had a chance to learn the game, which is quite unfair (it would only be possible for a new player to play with the elite if they play like a veteran from the moment they create their character). Depending on the algorithm, other players could screw up someone's rating by playing badly or people could screw up their own rating by helping the team, again unfair.

Segregate them via a blacklist system that prevented b-listed people being matched? A slightly better solution, considering it only segregates specific players from each other instead of masses based on a grade. Still, some of the negatives I listed above would hold to a lesser extent.

Whine in party chat, whine on the forums, whine in linkshells and fc chat? This kind of "discouraging" is certainly possible, but does it solve anything? Probably not. Yet we have this 40+ page thread which has managed to improve an estimated amount of 0 players.

Make a premade via linkshells, friends list, fc, PF or /shout? A working solution but people avoid it with the excuse that it takes time, even though it would save time in the long run if the average player is really so bad you can't progress in roulettes. Offer advice and kick if things are not going the way the majority of the party wants? A working option and allowed by the devs. Funnily enough the two best options to deal with "bad" players are already available. I don't see how the devs could improve the situation without causing other problems like I described above.

As for the topic of "basics of a job", what would you consider fulfilling the basics of the job using a few example jobs? Anyone can answer this question by the way. It's highly subjective and it got me thinking if this is something people can agree about. What skills could a healer not use and still be decent? What about DRG, BLM, SMN, PLD, BRD or other jobs? Which skills are above and beyond the so called fundamentals? Is there a discrepancy between roles or jobs in the number of mandatory abilities when it comes to playing at a passable level?

[Kerii]

... Funnily enough the two best options to deal with "bad" players are already available.

I think you've said what I was trying to get at in a much better way than I ever could. Thank you so much.

[Vnecat]

It was mentioned in many posts before, that we should strike to try improve the whole player base. Cause if you take a deep breath and just shrug it off, there will be time when you won't be able to breath normally anymore, when under-performing becomes the norm on DF.

That's kind of the thing, though. If it were simply a matter of getting the same handful of players over and over and running the same content one run after the other with no improvement, then I'd definitely raise my voice and say there's something not quite right here. But when you're met with complete strangers with different experiences every single time that you enter the Duty Finder, it's a very difficult (and very mentally draining) job to try and continuously instruct them on what to do when, as I said before, chances are you're not going to see them ever again.

[Obysuca]

chances are you're not going to see them ever again.

Just because you probably won't, doesn't mean you can't help them improve. The less terribads/lazies there are, the better the overall community/playerbase becomes, the better type of content we get and the less chance of wasting a 30+ min queue on a horrible pt who can't comprehend the easiest of mechanics.