Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[Mahri]

It's no secret that this has been a long running issue in the FF14 community, that there is a large population of bad players who are coddled into believing that even though you're playing with other people, that others don't matter.

In light of the fact that the difficulty of content will stay generally the same throughout this game's lifespan, by which I mean there'll be very difficult yet presumably rewarding (for the sense of shared accomplishment, if not just the gear rewards) endgame options, but all mandatory and some optional content is feasibly cleared even if some people have to be pretty much dragged by their ankles: Why are you passionate about this?

Why care so much about distracted, dozing, fat-fingered, easily panicked, clueless, or simply new people in content that doesn't really require them to be much better, when they don't even come close to infringing on your EX/savage-raiding space?

Bad players don't matter.

This is a video game. A hobby. It is not real life, where poor decisions and incompetence tend to have, y'know, consequences.

Should everyone be obligated to play this game "right" in order to obtain enjoyment from it?

There are certainly other MMOs that have openly catered to such "dedicated" mindsets. They were more common many years ago, before certain companies caught on to the fact that people don't appreciate substantial punishment for failure in their subscription product, which they expect to actually fulfill the description of "game", and whaddaya know, that means more subscribers, which Square-Enix has every interest in obtaining and retaining.

There will never be a high bar to entry.

The majority of content will always be accessible to the most people possible.

Square-Enix will do nothing to change this, because they know what kind of game this needs to be in order to sustain it.

Now if you'll pardon me, I'm going to get back to my Dark Souls level 1 run. Ornstein & Smough can't touch this naked backflipping club-wielding zombie.

[Larkspur]

Bad players don't matter.

This is a video game. A hobby. It is not real life, where poor decisions and incompetence tend to have, y'know, consequences.

Square-Enix will do nothing to change this, because they know what kind of game this needs to be in order to sustain it.

I find nothing wrong with this statement, but of course others are gonna argue that the game needs hardcore ranking systems and all that crap. It detracts from the enjoyment of the game, and parsers are already detracting from this because our community goes overboard.

Yes, people will have bad dps. Yes, we'll have shitty runs where the DRG doesnt maintain his Blood of the Dragon or the NIN that never uses huton. Yes, we'll have a tank that can't hold hate.

Am I going to hate them? No. Am I gonna be slightly upset with em? Sure, and I'll try to provide advice to improve their gameplay. I won't see a need to look down on them unless they're being an ass completely.

[Archaell]

Why care so much about distracted, dozing, fat-fingered, easily panicked, clueless, or simply new people in content that doesn't really require them to be much better, when they don't even come close to infringing on your EX/savage-raiding space?

Please, join few parties in PF for the Nidhogg Ex. Kill parties, last phase training parties - does not matter. Join few and then report back how many times have you got to the last phase and how many casuals have you seen there.

Most of the players are entitled to clear Ex primals - and a lot of them bring in the "carry me now" attitude that they learn in DF.

[Greedalox]

In light of the fact that the difficulty of content will stay generally the same throughout this game's lifespan, by which I mean there'll be very difficult yet presumably rewarding (for the sense of shared accomplishment, if not just the gear rewards) endgame options, but all mandatory and some optional content is feasibly cleared even if some people have to be pretty much dragged by their ankles: Why are you passionate about this?

Why care so much about distracted, dozing, fat-fingered, easily panicked, clueless, or simply new people in content that doesn't really require them to be much better, when they don't even come close to infringing on your EX/savage-raiding space?

Bad players don't matter.

This is a video game. A hobby. It is not real life, where poor decisions and incompetence tend to have, y'know, consequences.

Should everyone be obligated to play this game "right" in order to obtain enjoyment from it?

There are certainly other MMOs that have openly catered to such "dedicated" mindsets. They were more common many years ago, before certain companies caught on to the fact that people don't appreciate substantial punishment for failure in their subscription product, which they expect to actually fulfill the description of "game", and whaddaya know, that means more subscribers, which Square-Enix has every interest in obtaining and retaining.

There will never be a high bar to entry.

The majority of content will always be accessible to the most people possible.

Square-Enix will do nothing to change this, because they know what kind of game this needs to be in order to sustain it.

Now if you'll pardon me, I'm going to get back to my Dark Souls level 1 run. Ornstein & Smough can't touch this naked backflipping club-wielding zombie.

I'm passionate about it because I'm passionate about the game and it's community.

I'm passionate about the bottom line because the only way the difficulty of this game will ever go up is if the average skill of the lowers goes up.

I care about the dozy, fat fingered clueless people because the game is a community, which is a large aspect of playing MMO's. No point in a community if you're only ever going to play with a select couple friends. If you don't seek community then I can't recommend a game like this. Bad players DO matter because they have the game by the crotch.

On the note of community, you're acting as if that fact this is a video game means that the individuals on the other end of the monitor don't matter and that poor decisions and incompetence don't have consequences, which really shows your level of empathy.

People should be obligated to try to improve. I've gone into detail why people who coddle create a game where being terrible is the norm.

"There will never be a high bar to entry" - I'm going to say this one fiiinal time. The people advocating a better bottom line are not trying to set the bar HIGH, just above terrible and incompetent.

[Brian_]

In any situation where there is an interaction between people, it's pretty logical that if you want a positive interaction, you will do certain things.

The real life equivalent would be taking a shower, maybe using some antiperspirant, deodorant and/or cologne, and wearing some clean clothes when you go out. You could be the friendliest person out there but if you're dirty, smelling like garbage, and covered in sweat when rubbing up against someone on public transportation, you're going to test the limits of their civility. Why push them? And, if they do crack and tell you off, are you going to blame them?

The FF equivalent would be having appropriate gear, maybe with melds, researching the content and being practiced with your role. You could be the friendliest person out there but if you're under-geared, un-melded, totally oblivious to what is happening and bad at your role, you're going to create many potential points of conflict that could be avoided if you just put in the effort -- the same effort others have already put in. When things melt down, who is more to blame? The person whose lack of care planted and watered the seeds of conflict or the person who is merely reacting?

Being a part of a community is understanding that dynamic and the individual obligation you have to make sure things keep working. At this point, a lot of players are just sick of doing their part while others just don't care. The solution is not to just be nicer. The solution is that everyone should exercise some damn empathy.

[Cakekizyy]

And this is where your original analogy fails again. There's Spec Ops, Farmer Joes and regular Bobs. Regular Bobs are in between and strive to be either of the spectrum. The community should not advocate Farmer Joes, they should eradicate or segregate Farmer Joes.

Most players are Regular Bobs that have to put up with Farmer Joes and Spec Ops, which one do you want in your team?

He said it.

[Klamor]

He said it.

Oh, I see. Sorry about that then. I apparently missed most of the discussion about the Farmers.

[Trixxy]

the community shouldn't hugbox the people who can't be bothered to do the bare minimum.

people keep saying it's others being too elitist when it's really just people being too lazy to bother with improving their play or players who do know how to do well being sick n tired of running the same instance for the hundredth time. Spliscreen XIV, put on netflix and proceed spamming heavy shot all day. Plain, disgusting laziness.

No wonder people keep defending this trash, after all you can't get banned for "being bad"

[KarstenS]

Give us "trash" that is not truly "trash"...

In CT1 we had between boss fights, that were no regular trash mobs. I really loved it. I would like to see more of fillers like this.

[MayleeMorningstar]

As I said many times mixing players with "different play-styles" is a bad idea and the best fix would be to separate them so that everyone could be happy.

But we HAVE content for the different playstyles and skill levels. Savage is made for the hardcore, challenge seeking players, and 4-mans are made for low gear/skill players. That's why so many people are arguing against this thread, because a hardcore player is going into entry level, easy-mode content and complains that people aren't playing well enough.

Duty finder is a tool that puts us together with strangers to give us easier access to dungeon runs, but we have the choice to bring our own people if we require a certain skill level. If you use the DF tool to enter content made for casuals and even bad players (4-mans), it's not fair to complain when you run into them there.