It's almost impossible to level a new character now. What gives, SE?

[Bled]

Casual - Easy to play, easy to master - shorter sessions

Middle ground

Core - hard to play, hard to master - longer sessions

[Evenstar]

Some people act like FFXIV is the ONLY game in the whole freaking world that requires time to master. Every single game works that way even the singleplayer offline Final Fantasy games.

Yes, you can rush a FF game, finish it in about 40 hours, but you character will not be leveled to the maximum level. You will not have the best weapons. You will not have done all the sidequests and so on ...

It is the same in FFXIV, so I do not see the problem.

Yes, 1-20 is a bit unbalanced at the moment, suck it up. Either quit until they balanced it a bit more or just shut up and play. People could level to level 30 if they put the time in leveling instead of crying on the forums.

I started over after patch 1.19 hit. I am level 12 ARC right now and I did not put in that much time so far. I always killed mobs my level or just one level higher. I am able to chain to at least #2 sometimes even #3 by timing my kills and saving my TP.

Again, I agree it is a bit unbalanced, but it is not as bas as some of you guys make it sound like.

Edit: The only problem I am having right now is finding the right gear in the Market Wards. SE should look into making low level gear (until level 8 or something) cheap and easy to get. My linkshell will help me later today with some gear, so that will be solved too. No problem.

[Quanta]

Both core and casual play for entertainment.
How they get this entertainment is what divides them. Of not for the time given, then why would casual games be the ones you can pick up and put down in short segments? Why core games to require more time and commitment than their counterparts?

I'm only going by what the industry has taught me about both consumer groups.

Core games are longer, yes, but they're just as accessible as casual fare like Bejeweled. The fact that I can easily save and pick up where I last left off in almost any core game released in the last 15 years tells me everything I need to know about the needs and desires of core gamers. Time investment is not a factor, and is certainly not the driving force that makes me complete a game; that's actually kind of retarded, actually.

[Evenstar]

Core games are longer, yes, but they're just as accessible as casual fare like Bejeweled. The fact that I can easily save and pick up where I last left off in almost any core game released in the last 15 years tells me everything I need to know about the needs and desires of core gamers. Time investment is not a factor, and is certainly not the driving force that makes me complete a game; that's actually kind of retarded, actually.

So, what exactly is the difference between the games you just described and FFXIV?

You can logoff whenever you want. You can login whenever you want. You can put in as much time and effort as you want.

... just like every other game?

[Betelgeuzah]

Right, but I'm playing a video game. I'm not doing day-to-day things in real life.

An overwhelming majority of the "accomplishments" in this MMO revolve around time spent.

Day-to-day things? How about repairing an old car? Takes dedication, knowledge, but isn't exactly challenging. Just time-consuming, probably expensive.

I'm not an advocate for every accomplishment being dictated by time spent, and I certainly don't mind encounters like the Hard mode Ifrit, but the mindset that everything should be like the ifrit fight or it's not an accomplishment at all is silly. That's all I'm saying.

At the end of the day if leveling is no longer considered an accomplishment, it is a useless feature because there is no challenge in it either. It should be either removed completely or made an achievement (through requiring enough dedication to be considered as such). Do you have an alternative solution?

[Gramul]

Core games are longer, yes, but they're just as accessible as casual fare like Bejeweled. The fact that I can easily save and pick up where I last left off in almost any core game released in the last 15 years tells me everything I need to know about the needs and desires of core gamers. Time investment is not a factor, and is certainly not the driving force that makes me complete a game; that's actually kind of retarded, actually.

I don't know about that. The fact that Dwarf Fortress not only exists, but is popular in spite of it's insane complexity, crazy high learning curve, and necessity for long term commitment makes me think that there is a strong market for time heavy games.

And please don't insult me with callous name calling like that. When developers talk about how they want to appeal to a more casual audience, it's usually by making the game playable in small segments to conform to the little time they want to commit to the game. I'm only following their examples.

[Blarp]

Some people act like FFXIV is the ONLY game in the whole freaking world that requires time to master. Every single game works that way even the singleplayer offline Final Fantasy games.

Since this is the premise of your entire post, I'll address only this part.

When I think of mastering something, I think of improving a skill set. For instance, in a game like Starcraft 2, there are several skill sets for me to master. I can work on macro, micro, hotkeys, map control, vision etc. In an MMO, I have fewer things to master. I need to master the use of pressing an ability on a bar at the right time. I'm not saying FFXIV takes absolutely zero skill to master, but time spent on repetitive and low skill-cap tasks is far more important.

[Blarp]

Day-to-day things? How about repairing an old car? Takes dedication, knowledge, but isn't exactly challenging. Just time-consuming, probably expensive.

I'm not an advocate for every accomplishment being dictated by time spent, and I certainly don't mind encounters like the Hard mode Ifrit, but the mindset that everything should be like the ifrit fight or it's not an accomplishment at all is silly. That's all I'm saying.

At the end of the day if leveling is no longer considered an accomplishment, it is a useless feature because there is no challenge in it either. It should be either removed completely or made an achievement (through requiring enough dedication to be considered as such). Do you have an alternative solution?

This will probably be a double post so I apologize in advance.

Repairing an old car is not a day-to-day task unless it's a hobby or you are a mechanic. Cleaning my house is time consuming, but that doesn't make it an accomplishment.

I agree with you.

I somewhat agree with you. Leveling should be considered an accomplishment, but I don't think that means I should be forced to do the same thing endlessly. I'll use World of Warcraft as an example even though it won't translate perfectly to this conversation. In World of Warcraft, to level I can do as many quests as I want solo or with friends, grind on mobs, do dungeons, participate in PVP, gather materials or do archeology. If I get bored of one thing, I go do something else. Yes, it all boils down to time spent, but if I don't enjoy doing one thing I can try something else.

In FFXIV, there isn't much variety. It all feels very much the same to me.

[Evenstar]

You are right about that everything feels very much the same, but we have to remember this is still some kind of beta. Things are unbalanced and we knew (or at least I knew) this was going to happen. Since it is impossible to balance a game when it is live.

Blizzard made this same mistake just before the last two expansions came out. Especially just before Cataclysm the whole world was a mess, because they patched the game with some expansions related data before the expansion was even out. The whole balance was gone and it was not fixed until the expansion was released.

We are having the same problem right now. They are balancing stuff, they are changing stuff, they are adding stuff, they are removing stuff. Since we want patches and we want them fast we will have periods like this until the games final (and gets Pay to Play).

[Betelgeuzah]

Repairing an old car is not a day-to-day task unless it's a hobby or you are a mechanic.

I explained myself improperly, as I basically meant that its not the day-to-day tasks I am talking about but hobbies that provide you with accomplishments and enjoyment, even if every day is not a hard-mode Ifrit.

I don't think that means I should be forced to do the same thing endlessly

Well, are you forced to tweak the car's settings endlessly as well? You do it because you enjoy it, not because you are forced to, by some almighty being, to do it. If you do not enjoy it, you are not forced to do it.

As far as variety, the developers are working on it. That's all they can do. What they can't do, is make leveling faster now because there is less variety and tune it down later when there is more variety. The status quo has to stay, because the playerbase would reject such change later on. They need to avoid nerfing, especially when it comes to such a delicate topic. It can't be always avoided, but in this case it can.

This is an issue that only time can fix, sadly.