Been playing this game for ~3 months now. My thoughts so far

[Kosmos992k]

The thing is you're not playing on your own.Your actions have an impact on others experiences.

That cuts both ways. If you have a problem with people who take a more casual approach or are not as 'skilled' as you are, then you have the option of pre-made parties. If you insist on using DF, you have to accept that you will get many different kinds of player, in the end, you are impacting those other players every bit as much as they impact you.

P.S. Healers are *not* meant to DPS. That is at best a tertiary role for healers. Even the hall of novices makes it clear in the healer exercised that you only throw in offense when there is time to spare and no danger. At the end of the day, I would rather my healer was not DPSing if it is the difference between them healing me at a critical point, or being OOMP. A healer who is OOMP because some DD was demandding they do damage is no longer a healer, and their tank is toast.

[NaesakiAshwell]

Then how is it that healers can afk for half the dungeon?
Healers have to do almost nothing unless you're AoEing.

SE's biggest mistake is calling them "Healers" when all they are are DPS that just so happen to be able to heal.

I'd love to know which dungeons you are doing where a healer can afk for half a dungeon, I'm aware you're over-exaggerating but come on you're being ridiculous.

They are healers at the end of the day, without them in ilevel relevant or synced content 9 times out of 10 you will be dead.

How much the healer ultimately does in a dungeon run doesn't just depend on them but the competency and quality of their party members and the teamwork displayed throughout the run.

Sometimes you'll have room to dps a lot, sometimes you'll have to heal more than usual and sometimes you'll have an even balance.

Now the healers who stand there when the party is hovering above 75% hp and their health is either dropping really gradually or there is no immediate danger of them all falling really low then yes a healer should be contributing to the dps effort and there is no reason for them not to unless they are being lazy.

[Exidrial]

That cuts both ways. If you have a problem with people who take a more casual approach or are not as 'skilled' as you are, then you have the option of pre-made parties. If you insist on using DF, you have to accept that you will get many different kinds of player, in the end, you are impacting those other players every bit as much as they impact youP.S. Healers are *not* meant to DPS. That is at best a tertiary role for healers. Even the hall of novices makes it clear in the healer exercised that you only throw in offense when there is time to spare and no danger. At the end of the day, I would rather my healer was not DPSing if it is the difference between them healing me at a critical point, or being OOMP. A healer who is OOMP because some DD was demandding they do damage is no longer a healer, and their tank is toast.

When am I ever in danger of dying?Most of the time I'm at 100% health because the healer starts panicking when i lose 5% of health and instantly overheals me.It's not hard to keep the tank alive most of the time.
If you're running out of mana then you're doing something wrong.Several friends of mine play healer classes and they never are close to oom unless the AoE or I do one pull after the other without a second of being out of combat.

I'd love to know which dungeons you are doing where a healer can afk for half a dungeon, I'm aware you're over-exaggerating but come on you're being ridiculous.

They are healers at the end of the day, without them in ilevel relevant or synced content 9 times out of 10 you will be dead.

How much the healer ultimately does in a dungeon run doesn't just depend on them but the competency and quality of their party members and the teamwork displayed throughout the run.

Sometimes you'll have room to dps a lot, sometimes you'll have to heal more than usual and sometimes you'll have an even balance.

Now the healers who stand there when the party is hovering above 75% hp and their health is either dropping really gradually or there is no immediate danger of them all falling really low then yes a healer should be contributing to the dps effort and there is no reason for them not to unless they are being lazy.

I'm not demanding that Healers should DPS when the tank is having a hard time staying alive.I'm talking about that kind of content that doesn't almost kill you.It doesn't take skill to heal and deal damage at the same time in those situations.

Your argument about me dying without them doesn't make sense.Of course I'd die with them so what?
Imagine I had godmode and all I did was aggro the mobs.I wouldn't deal any damage, just aggro the mobs.
The party would need me but still I wouldn't contribute much to the party itself.
I would be getting rewarded for doing basically nothing.

If you have your hands full healing then it's okay not to dps.Almost nobody is demanding that.What people are demanding is you attacking when you have nothing else to do.Why do a lot of healers have a problem with letting the tank fall below 100% health?Your job is to keep me alive, not to keep me at 100% all the time.
I don't even really watch my hp while tanking so I wouldn't even notice.

[NaesakiAshwell]

-snip

The way you are wording your argument was literally you implying that there are no healer's in this game and that everyone is a glorified DPS.

^How is this not a ludicrous statement to make? the holy trinity is in full force with this game.

Which is why I responded the way I did.

[Kosmos992k]

When am I ever in danger of dying?Most of the time I'm at 100% health because the healer starts panicking when i lose 5% of health and instantly overheals me.It's not hard to keep the tank alive most of the time.
If you're running out of mana then you're doing something wrong.Several friends of mine play healer classes and they never are close to oom unless the AoE or I do one pull after the other without a second of being out of combat.

Well, let's see now. Over leveled and over geared characters are much more able to ignore the limitations and boundaries of their roles. However in level appropriate gear without the advantages of insane power-creep, you'll find it's quite possible for a healer to go OOMP because they were holy spamming. Your argument depends entirely on the players in question being over leveled, over geared and therefore over powered for the content.

[Exidrial]

I'll quote myself here

I'm not demanding that Healers should DPS when the tank is having a hard time staying alive.I'm talking about that kind of content that doesn't almost kill you.It doesn't take skill to heal and deal damage at the same time in those situations.

Having to heal much?Yeah heal.Nothing wrong with that.
Just standing around for more than 3 seconds doing nothing?DPS.Even if shit hits the fan, tanks have an oh shit button they can press.That button gives the healer more than enough time to react, especially when paired with a macro that lets the healer know in the party chat.

Either I've posted what I'm gonna say a page before or the forum didn't save my edit:
This "There are no healers" "healers don't have a hard time healing" stuff surely is different in certain end game content such as raids.I'm talking about casual content though and I have yet to see a healer be oom in a normal dungeon run.I

[otarolgam]

I... actually have to agree with Exidrial here. I've seen healers that can push DPS just as high as most normal playing DPS. It's a little ridiculous.

And all too often, when I'm WARing, I'm mostly thinking "DPS, DPS, DPS" instead of "holding aggro". As for when I DRK, funny thing... I still keep Grit on, but I never go down in aggro when I'm doing my DPS combo in Grit. And I still pull relative high numbers...

Only problem I have with DPS is in PLD... Cause aggroing is still a problem with PLD for me. I thought I was doing an okay opener, but I'm still getting crap numbers as one... It's dumb to me. Then again, PLD's are supposed to be a wall, but whatever...

[ardrej]

Regarding healer dps, I think if you have the chance to do it you must do it, sitting a tank at full heal doesnt do any good, of course if you are expecting a tank buster then then top him, but in dungeons? theres no really any danger on regular pulls. I recently leveled my WHM to 60, and really is not hard to trow a stoneskin a regen even assylum go cleric swiftcast Holy Assize Aero 3 turn cleric off heal as necesarry repeat, it only takes around 6 secs to do it all. Also I have a BRD and it relly hurts me when I got no Caster Dps and my healer doesnt DPS at all, it makes my FOE's ussseles, A healer who doesnt dps dont need Ballad either they got more than enough mana for it.

Also from my experience in the expert roullete is absurd dont too, once our healer dc in betwen bosses, we cleared perfectly fine up to the second boss, other time we got an amazing healer that dps just fine while keeping us alive we finished the dungeon around 25 min contrary all the times that takes 30+min

[Reinha]

I'd love to know which dungeons you are doing where a healer can afk for half a dungeon, I'm aware you're over-exaggerating but come on you're being ridiculous.

They are healers at the end of the day, without them in ilevel relevant or synced content 9 times out of 10 you will be dead.

How much the healer ultimately does in a dungeon run doesn't just depend on them but the competency and quality of their party members and the teamwork displayed throughout the run.

Well, let's see now. Over leveled and over geared characters are much more able to ignore the limitations and boundaries of their roles. However in level appropriate gear without the advantages of insane power-creep, you'll find it's quite possible for a healer to go OOMP because they were holy spamming. Your argument depends entirely on the players in question being over leveled, over geared and therefore over powered for the content.

I'm just gonna leave this here. It's me doing an expert dungeon with far less than minimum item level (ilevel 64, healing magic potency was roughly halved and MP greatly reduced). I have no video of it but since I did the experiment with both AST and WHM I'm quite confident I could do it successfully another time on demand. I checked the tank's gear on one of the runs, he had only freely farmable gear on the left side. Going to have to side with Exidrial here. If it's possible to heal full time with half the spell power, it's possible to heal half the time with full spell power (all gear equipped). Team quality matters though.

Yup, it is indeed sad. Here is my second experiment after trying LCoA with WHM i76. I removed as much as I could without raising suspicion.




No danger whatsoever even with my 8k HP. I only had to heal a bit more and using cooldowns gave me room to dps.

[Johaandr]

I do agree in som part but ur "yah whatever" parts. Ur point of view sucks.