Obligatory Difficulty Discussion: The Weeping City of Mhach

[FunkyBunch]

The only problem I have with Weeping City is that ONE person can basically wipe the entire raid.
Happened to us like 4 times before abandon on Ozma.

Our healer couldn't place the meteors when they got marked and we just kept dying.

[Daeney]

The only problem I have with Weeping City is that ONE person can basically wipe the entire raid.
Happened to us like 4 times before abandon on Ozma. Our healer couldn't place the meteors when they got marked and we just kept dying.

That's unfortunate. And I do hope you don't think the solution would be to reduce the difficult of content. I would argue that SE does have some obligation to create a fun and enjoyable experience for these types of players that may never be suited for content like weeping city or Savage/Ex encounters, but it should not be at the expense of players like myself who enjoy more challenging content.

I actually remember a time when dungeons were difficult and I would have to sleep excess enemies so our tank did not get pummeled, but this is probably out of the scope of this discussion.

[FunkyBunch]

That's unfortunate. And I do hope you don't think the solution would be to reduce the difficult of content. I would argue that SE does have some obligation to create a fun and enjoyable experience for these types of players that may never be suited for content like weeping city or Savage/Ex encounters, but it should not be at the expense of players like myself who enjoy more challenging content.

I actually remember a time when dungeons were difficult and I would have to sleep excess enemies so our tank did not get pummeled, but this is probably out of the scope of this discussion.

I don't want it easier, it's super fun. I actually really like Weeping/Wiping City. It's just silly that one person can cause 24 people to wipe. I'd rather have the person get instagibbed than 24 people by one wrong meteor. But some people just can't do mechanics. Even at i230 level 60.

[randysquirrel]

The only problem I have with Weeping City is that ONE person can basically wipe the entire raid.
Happened to us like 4 times before abandon on Ozma.

Our healer couldn't place the meteors when they got marked and we just kept dying.

just votekick them

[FunkyBunch]

just votekick them

Sucking isn't a valid reason to votekick.

[Destous]

Sucking isn't a valid reason to votekick.

It is, as I assume they must be semi afk to be doing so poorly in a fight.

The way someone plays while doing things solo is up to them, and the more power to them. The way people play while 3, or 7, or 23 other players are being held behind if they play poorly is subject to scrutiny; and that includes getting booted for not doing mechanics, or not learning mechanics after a few wipes, or just not caring and "playing how I want to play".

It's a coop game. It's a coop genre. You have to cooperate or you're getting booted.

[FunkyBunch]

It is, as I assume they must be semi afk to be doing so poorly in a fight.

The way someone plays while doing things solo is up to them, and the more power to them. The way people play while 3, or 7, or 23 other players are being held behind if they play poorly is subject to scrutiny; and that includes getting booted for not doing mechanics, or not learning mechanics after a few wipes, or just not caring and "playing how I want to play".

It's a coop game. It's a coop genre. You have to cooperate or you're getting booted.

Please tell me which of the 4 options you would use to Votekick someone? Harassment? AFK? Offline? Cheating?
It's none of those things.

[Destous]

Please tell me which of the 4 options you would use to Votekick someone?

Pick any one of them, and my previous statement about the necessity to cooperate, which includes learning mechanics of a fight so as to not hold back the entire group, is how I justify it; and it seems to be enough justification for the other members of my groups as they agree on the vote kick.

There's a bad culture of not holding players responsible for playing poorly or for not learning fights even after multiple wipes. For a single player experience, those types of players are fine to do what they want while they play. If they expect other players to play along side them, then they need to be willing to improve how they play. If they are not, then it's easy to call it harassment; harassment committed against 3, or 7, or 23 other players all at once because they're so self centered that they won't change a losing strategy.

[Leigaon]

The only problem I have with Weeping City is that ONE person can basically wipe the entire raid..

That's both the good and bad part about it. Same thing happened to me last night, our healer didn't take it to the back instead ran all the way to the other side and caused extra damage..

When you add time in that run for having to re-do a boss, depending on how late it is, it can be annoying. At the same time though, hopefully, some good comes out of it. Lots of people have been able to skim by with little skill. This enforces it. I don't see it getting to a point where we can ignore meteors, or keep doing actions while we have the cubes over our heads.

[Daeney]

When you add time in that run for having to re-do a boss, depending on how late it is, it can be annoying. At the same time though, hopefully, some good comes out of it. Lots of people have been able to skim by with little skill. This enforces it. I don't see it getting to a point where we can ignore meteors, or keep doing actions while we have the cubes over our heads.

I agree with this assessment. Yes, one mistake by one player can have drastic implications for the party or even the raid as a whole, but what's the alternative? If there is ample room for error than there's no real risk and clearing / defeating the boss becomes an inevitability where mistakes just make it take longer.

Actually, I ran WC last night and on the final boss (which I think is perhaps too forgiving) my group used healer LB3 twice! The fight took ages and I was one of two people in a 24-man that did not die to mechanics. Then the healers had the audacity to talk about how much work they did... you only did work because everyone was acting like a dunce... this is artificially created work. Maybe commend the two DPS who constituted 22% of the damage on a 24-man raid boss. Sorry rant over.

TL;DR: No Risk, No Reward. And by reward I mean a fulfilling and fun experience.