Crafting price negotiations, or lack thereof. A small rant.

[Judah_Brandt]

Pretty much what the majority of Crafters here are saying. To be completely honest I rarely even do favors for people anymore, and I'll tell you exactly why. Even if you're providing the materials, I have no guarantee you aren't going to go straight to your retainer and undercut me and the market with whatever it is I just crafted you. Not only does it make me look bad to other crafters and sour my reputation, I'm now competing with my own work which is infuriating. Anima items can't be Spiritbonded so it's relatively risky should you decide you don't need them right away and flip them at my expense.

Regardless, find a player in your FC, purchase the mats at cost or gather then, and ask politely for the craft and offer a tip.

[Lexia]

Everytime I want to buy something cheaper than on the MB...I buy all the mats myself and ask for someone to make it, usually including a tip. This ends up WAY cheaper than MB prices for me.

This right here there plenty of nice crafters out there that will craft for small tip if you provide the mats.

[Cynric]

Haggling is negotiating a price. Having someone gather your mats,craft it,even possibly pay out of pocket, then give you another discount is a bit mmm. There's no way. You might as well be asking them to give you the items for free.

[SwdVengeance]

Alright, fair enough points have been made that clearly make out that haggling is a no-no, though I admit I'm still shocked at some of the volatility based on my OP. I concede then that 20% then exceeds what's reasonable based on what's been said. I do want to point a few things out. People seem to think I want 20% off. I don't expect that in the slightest. From what's been said I get the general consensus is that is far too steep to even start a reasonable discussion.Fair enough, but I take issue with people thinking I'm somehow out to screw someone over massively. That was never the intent, as I've stated, I only haggle on high priced, usually seldom sold items. Second, I am aware enough to grab mats, and find someone. That's not always the most convenient or possible solution, but it is the one I've usually gone with. Hence why I'm clearly shocked by what is the normal here despite my playtime. Third, and once again, I am NOT offended, upset, or complaining that people do NOT want to haggle. I absolutely, 100%, understand why and how someone would not want to. People seem to keep missing this point. What my posts have been trying to clarify is that I was perturbed by the response. That is why I came here asking for clarification. Clearly it is a bit of a volatile point, and while I can understand why, I question whether it needs to be. I don't expect people to haggle, I just expected people to decline the offer. Might be poking a larger issue with the community, but I won't stretch the discussion to broach it.

You're asking someone to put their gil up front, do all the work, assume all the risk, and spend half an hour of their time doing so. For what, 600k profit when they could be making 1M putting it up on the MB? That's 40% off their profit, for skipping the MB.

To be fair, MB already eats 3-5% total cost from the seller. Their profit margin is smaller than 40% from the get go. People also need to keep in mind, sellers don't just instantly make the money they post an item for on the MB. An assured quick sale has value as well, which I'm seeing isn't necessarily considered (at least by this thread).

But the biggest problem is probably the fact that you aren't providing mats, but want someone to craft you stuff. Unless I can trust the person, I wouldn't go out and buy all the mats for any *'d craft (lv50 or lv60) just to craft it for them, especially at a price cut. If anything...I'd charge more for all the extra work I have to do.

Great point about putting all the assumed risk on the crafter, one I failed to mention. If I am paying for crafter's materials I do extend usually that I'll pay 1/2 up front, assuming part of the risk. In the specific story however, aside from those few that did respond to me, it never got mentioned as no discussion actually occurred. Perfectly valid and good point to be made though.

Oh, and if they don't provide the mats tell them to piss off and /laugh (this part is important).

This has been said several times too, and I'd like to poke at this point a bit. First, I'm not going to crafters listed in PF asking for them to do this, that I agree would be too much. I have it listed in my PF, so I assume if they're even /telling me, they know as much. Second, is really that odd that crafters don't have the mats on hand? Specific story in hand, I can understand as they're more exotic materials, however a handful are fairly common place, and ones I often assume people are swimming in or have some on hand at all times as their universal use. This seems like an excessively volatile response. I have a decent crafter or two that's 3 star capable, and usually have a decent amount of mats (albeit not all of them) on hand at any one time. Am I also unique in that? I had not though I was.

In the end, I do get that the crafter scene here appears to be far more seller bias than I expected, and that my view on haggling my be ill suited here. I can completely accept that. In light of this thread I probably will adjust how I go about these situations. Though I would like to question the amount of, seemingly, unnecessary anger or volatility over the discussion. I don't think any of my post stepped over any line, an attempted to stay level-headed and quite accepting of things. However, I question why people seem so quick to draw arms over the ideas of either haggling or crafter provide materials. I understand, again, why both may be a no-go and frowned upon, but wonder about why it draws such a strong response from some.

[Cynric]

See thing is. If you provide mats lots of people will craft it for free. But especially with something like this its just asking a lot of someone you have no prior relationship with. Doing all that work and then offering a price cut is extremely generous. Especially for items that sell pretty well as is. Haggling is ok if they already have the items and you know they do. But when its using their mats and not yours you kinda lose the option to haggle very far down the MB price. At that point it is more up to the seller as you haven't put anything into the buyer/ seller relationship other than haggling. Even a few mats are better than none at all for trying to haggle. You can't just haggle for the sake of being cheap you know

[StouterTaru]

I am aware enough to grab mats, and find someone. That's not always the most convenient or possible solution, but it is the one I've usually gone with.

If it's not convenient for you, it's probably not convenient for the crafter either. You're discounting the time required to craft the entire batch. Top level crafter, using macros for the final 16 and fast synthing the materials (not quick synth, as it's unavailable), will spend 30 minutes crafting the entire batch. That's after rounding up all the materials. In gathering the materials, they will likely end up buying extras of some of them, and have to deal with those. That same level crafter could spend that half hour making a substantially larger profit making 3.3 recipes. A lower level crafter will spend closer to an hour. And all this is to help out a random stranger.

An assured quick sale has value as well, which I'm seeing isn't necessarily considered (at least by this thread).

To be fair I did say that was what the crafter was getting in exchange for the 40% cut in their profits, even if everyone else seems to discount it.

ps - Your better option to collecting the materials is to look at the signatures on the ones at the MB, and see who is in the business of stocking the MB with them. You'll probably find a name recurring. Find that person, and haggle with them. Relic items are likely one of their bread and butter items, and they would be happy to sell some for a smaller profit to avoid losing the business to the competition.

[SwdVengeance]

Snip

Fair enough point about convenience, and I have given in that my initial offer along with haggling in general, at least with this particular case and mostly in general is ill conceived. Also true enough that you did state that point about a quick sale, forgive me for discounting that.

That is one option I hadn't realized and considered about checking signatures, I often forget they're even a thing. Thank you for that and I will be keeping that in mind for the future.

[PArcher]

Alright, fair enough points have been made that clearly make out that haggling is a no-no

Its not. I haggled down my first set of relic turn-ins to 4mil for the set (think they were going for 5.5mil at the time. Guy had a set made and wanted to sell through the PF at a tiny bit under MB cost)

Low-balling so much that it offends the other party is...and that's exactly what starting at "20% off, with you gathering all mats and crafting all the items" is.


Start with a reasonable offer and you'll get bites. Something like yours probably got you added to a bunch of crafter's blacklists.

[Nicobo]

.....This is where I've been for over a week and have become somewhat baffled with what I've experienced. Almost every single whisper went one of two ways. A: Person asks me my price, I respond with a 20% markdown of MB prices as well as quoting the MB price, person does not respond nor return a follow up /tell when they didn't respond for several minutes. B: Person gives me a price straight away usually ranging from slightly below to above MB prices, I respond I'm looking for something more sub MB prices and counteroffer at like 15% markdown, person does not respond nor return a follow up. I've done this dance with a couple dozen people at this point or more. There have been the handful that did discuss prices or just politely refused my attempt to negotiate and I'm fine with that, but I can count on one hand those people.....

Up another PF "WTB full set relic item, will pay 20% more than MB price! "
Then A tell you, you don't response, and B tell you, you tell him 15% then no followup. ^^';

Above just kidding. Seriously why not state your expectation on your PF comment?
This save both parties time. Otherwise you will have ppl expecting only a few% off or just saving their TAX approaching you (take their item form MB and trade to you directly).

[zemogFC]

Alright, fair enough points have been made that clearly make out that haggling is a no-no, though I admit I'm still shocked at some of the volatility based on my OP.
but wonder about why it draws such a strong response from some.

The issue and the anger here is not from you wanting to haggle. Its from the disrespect you're showing to the crafter I believe.

Haggling for an already made item on the MB is not a big deal. It's actually a great idea. I've done it quite a few times myself.
Look to see who made the item you want then use player search to see if they're online and send them a tell with your offer. Guarantees the seller an instant sale and they don't pay a MB tax. All the pros for the seller you were talking about in previous posts. It's a win-win for buyer and seller.

But when your initial offer is low and you expect the crafter to do all the footwork for you... That's just absurd and disrespectful!
You're showing how much more important your convenience is over theirs.

Would you prefer unsavory tells as a reply or just not get a response from a person you've obviously offended? Most people don't want drama/trouble so its easier to just not reply.