Forced to spawn camp at the end of each match in Fields of Glory

[Eorzean_username]

Topically to this, I had a 72 Shatter match today where we lead hard at the beginning but got double-team spawn camped into 3rd place right at the end by a truce between the opposing two GCs.

We had someone else taking leader duties the whole match (directions in /alliance chat, callouts, etc), so I was reluctant to impose my own directions. But after a strong start it totally broke down at the end: the leader called us all back to spawn, and then... seemed to just kind of give up and stop saying anything or even moving until the match ended.

The other 23 players (including me) basically just stood around our spawn point paralyzed, watching the opposing GCs sit on our control point and stare us down, until the match expired.

I wanted to do more, but I'm still fairly inexperienced and also not used to 72 pops (I play at odd hours and usually get 24s). I didn't want to risk instructing my team to do something hopeless and just lead them into a slaughter (been there and done that a few times now).

What is a better response to the situation of being spawncamped in a 72-player Frontlines when the rest of your team seems dazed and panicked and needs a plan?

[KfLeX]

Yup, I was totally in that match with you. We had a good lead then it went down hill fast at the end at our base.

[Thekk]

What is a better response to the situation of being spawncamped in a 72-player Frontlines when the rest of your team seems dazed and panicked and needs a plan?

Honestly, the only answer to that is to be prepared. You know it's coming, you have to make your move before it happens. Send a few people to capture their outposts before you have lost your own.

If both of the other companies are stupid, they will come through the middle, so try to hold them in the choke point in front of your outpost instead of falling back to it right away: they might end up weakening themselves before getting to you and any time you save gives you more points. If they're smart, one of them will come from the side. In that case try to defend your outpost as long as you can and make sure people stand inside the circle as much as possible to prevent capture. Your healers are going to dictate how long of a stand you can make. The worst thing you can do is dying. If you're getting overwhelmed, fall back and let them have your outpost. They'll usually start fighting each other and you'll be able to sweep back in and get some kills, and sometimes that's all you need to get the last few points you were missing.

Now, if you're simply getting crushed in a fight and can't get out of your spawn, well I'm sorry, you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place. It might have been luck with the spawns or the other companies just ignoring you for too long. It is a PvP match after all, so it only makes sense that some fighting would settle the winner.

[Eorzean_username]

Now, if you're simply getting crushed in a fight and can't get out of your spawn, well I'm sorry, you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place.

That's really rude, but on the other hand, I kind of can't argue when I think about that match, since I found myself wondering multiple times why we were in 1st place given our behavior.

ie, We fled from every skirmish, no one focused targets or healers, in engagements everyone spread out like a cloud of gnats instead of staying tight around the healers, we didn't seize enemy outposts while they were bickering in midfield, we were bullied off any Large Ice we didn't reach early... etc.

Maybe spawn camping is just nature's way of telling a team they need to step it up.

[Thekk]

That's really rude, but on the other hand, I kind of can't argue when I think about that match, since I found myself wondering multiple times why we were in 1st place given our behavior.

ie, We fled from every skirmish, no one focused targets or healers, in engagements everyone spread out like a cloud of gnats instead of staying tight around the healers, we didn't seize enemy outposts while they were bickering in midfield, we were bullied off any Large Ice we didn't reach early... etc.

Maybe spawn camping is just nature's way of telling a team they need to step it up.

I know my point of view might sound harsh for some people, and I'm sorry if my phrasing sounded offensive to you, that was not my intention.

It just feels that since it's PvP, fighting should at least play a part on the output rather than who can put the most dps on crystals then just run away the best. If you actually have a upper hand in fights during the match, your lead will be bigger and the other companies won't even have the time to mount an assault because you'll already have nearly won by the last crystal. Basically, points from the crystals and outposts by themselves won't be enough to win, you'll have to fight at some point and it's either going to be during the match or at the end if you run away from it. It's a matter of choosing the right ones, and waiting for the end rarely is the good option.

[Eorzean_username]

I know my point of view might sound harsh for some people, and I'm sorry if my phrasing sounded offensive to you, that was not my intention.

Sorry, no, you're fine and I appreciate the blunt advice. I meant it more like "Ouch, that bruised my ego, but you make a good point". The tone probably didn't translate into text properly.

I admit I feel frustrated by my own sense of failure to the team when I can't dig it out of a mess like that, or even think of anything to suggest in /alliance. I'm more comfortable in 24s; in 72, as 1/24th of a dysfunctional blob it can feel difficult to really practice or learn effectively.

But yeah, at first I was like "Why did the mean people box us into spawn, how do we fix it?" And then you made me reflect on it, and it was more like: "Hm, maybe they boxed us into spawn because we deserved it" — in the sense of having a flimsy battlefield presence already during the match. It was probably a smart tactical call on the side of the other teams.

[Beckett]

Honestly, the only answer to that is to be prepared. You know it's coming, you have to make your move before it happens. Send a few people to capture their outposts before you have lost your own.

This happened to me yesterday. Our team was in a pretty solid first after all the crystals were down, so of course both the other teams came to our camp. Someone did eventually say that we should go cap Adder's point, but by that time it was too late. If we had reacted immediately, we could have capped Adder's camp, then when Mael and Adder inevitably started fighting each other, we could have come in for a pincer.

I'm betting that the end-of-match spawn camping will get easier to handle over time, as people learn these tactics. There are three exits out of all of the spawns, which means you always have options.

[DeliriumTrigger]

...Now, if you're simply getting crushed in a fight and can't get out of your spawn, well I'm sorry, you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place...

The issue is with 2 GCs pushing you, it's more likely that someone in your GC gets killed than killing someone from the other GCs. With the enemies capping your base, it's very difficult to regroup with the people who have died. There's no immunity buff so enemies can still kill people who are on the spawn platform. Also when one of team overtakes your GC, they run away and it's difficult to catch up with a scattered team.

I do like the choke points in Fields. I've seen it used many times. My biggest gripe is in the 20 minutes match, the only thing that matters is the final (7?) minutes and that the nodes phase feels like a warm-up. Also the spawn camping. Your team has to be very coordinated to avoid getting killed.