I guess it's time

[Atoli]

Where's Jumping Puzzles like in GW2?

If you want jumping puzzles, how about you go do the sightseeing log? Actually, if you want exploration, how about the sightseeing log?!
God, seriously, what is wrong with people that they need a quest to tell them "go here, do this" for every little shitty thing so it becomes "enjoyable" for them? Isn't the whole POINT of exploration to go out and find places you haven't seen before?
Do we need to dump quest markers and a shiton of gear, Gil or whatever on players for every step they take so exploration becomes "worthwhile"? Well sorry, but in my opinion that is actually 100% the opposite of exploration.

There simply isn't any real incentive to run old dungeons.

That's the problem with all the people who complain that there isn't enough content - they ignore 99% of the content the game has to offer because "there is no incentive".
When has gaming become something you do for the rewards rather than the gameplay itsself? Lots of content has interesting or funny mechanics, some are really hard on min ilvl, and the enjoyment comes purely from making it through them, especially with people you are not familiar with. (And let's not even start on how actually, YES, most of that content is totally relevant, for farming mounts, progressing your relic, new glamours, even highest grade tomestones through roulettes, etc.)

FFXIV is like this big, wonderful amusement park with tons of fun attractions, but lots of people exclusively ride on the rollercoaster because it has a chance for you to win a big prize.
They keep riding on only that rollercoaster even when they start feeling sick, and in the end go home and complain what a shitty amusement park it was because there weren't enough cool things to do.
But from the start, they were the ones who limited themselves because all they could see was the chance of getting the prize, instead of just enjoying all the fun experiences they could have had with all the other attractions.

^EX roulette and all FFXIV has to offer, in case that was too outlandish of an example

[RiceisNice]

If you want jumping puzzles, how about you go do the sightseeing log? Actually, if you want exploration, how about the sightseeing log?!

Funny enough, the sight seeing log for Heavensward is absolutely terrible imo. Nearly all the "hints" are extremely generic and without a huge "Visa point here!" indicator, it's more of a hide and seek thing than an actual exploration. And on the discussion of that, the 2.0 sight seeing logs are essentially the same thing except with weather patterns, it becomes less of an exploration and more of a guide that you look up rather than explore.

Also, you can fly in heavensward. There's no jumping puzzle in that regard.

God, seriously, what is wrong with people that they need a quest to tell them "go here, do this" for every little shitty thing so it becomes "enjoyable" for them? Isn't the whole POINT of exploration to go out and find places you haven't seen before?
Do we need to dump quest markers and a shiton of gear, Gil or whatever on players for every step they take so exploration becomes "worthwhile"? Well sorry, but in my opinion that is actually 100% the opposite of exploration.

Don't take it out of context. Aside from hunts and the aforementioned sight seeing log, the world really offers nothing beyond the atmosphere and beautiful scenery. They do nothing with it as far as the progression development or even additions is concerned. They haven't done much with the world is my personal issue.

When has gaming become something you do for the rewards rather than the gameplay itsself? Lots of content has interesting or funny mechanics, some are really hard on min ilvl, and the enjoyment comes purely from making it through them, especially with people you are not familiar with. (And let's not even start on how actually, YES, most of that content is totally relevant, for farming mounts, progressing your relic, new glamours, even highest grade tomestones through roulettes, etc.)

It's a shame that said gameplay is essentially the same thing that we've been doing for the past cycles. Diadem? Killing mobs with little to no mechanics behind it. Aquapolis? Killing mobs with little to no mechanics behind it. Dungeons? Killing mobs with little to no mechanics to it. The very little variation we get is the circumstances behind it, but they've done little to do even that (aquapolis imo being their best shot, if only for the rewards and the doors) and this is ultimately what gives me very little expectations for palace of the dead.

[Lan_Mantear]

That's the problem with all the people who complain that there isn't enough content - they ignore 99% of the content the game has to offer because "there is no incentive".

That's the reality of it. Welcome to FFXIV. Even FFXI suffered from this. However, their development team dealt with it by utilizing more horizontal gear progression. Kirin's Osode was relevant for a very long time. I wouldn't be surprised if it's still relevant now. How relevant is your soldiery gear? Do new players even know what that is?

When has gaming become something you do for the rewards rather than the gameplay itsself

Since forever. In some cases, the gameplay itself is the reward. Think pacman. Although the rewards can vary person to person in FFXIV. A majority of players play for gear,progression, glamours, mounts, etc. When those have been met, the content becomes stale. It's a corner that the FFXIV developers have pushed themselves to. They are aware of it, and so should we. They have chosen to address this by pushing out new dungeons, trials, gears, etc. Which makes previous dungeons, trials, gears, etc irrelevant. Feeding the cycle.

Acknowledging this doesn't change the fact that I like the game. But me liking the game shouldn't make me turn a blind eye to its flaws.

[RobbieH]

Isn't the whole POINT of exploration to go out and find places you haven't seen before?

Once you do sightseeing is done, absolutely no reason to do it again, hell can you even repeat? I don't think so.

Jumping Puzzles can be done daily since they give a reward chest at the end.

Point of your argument?

[Atoli]

Jumping Puzzles can be done daily since they give a reward chest at the end.
Point of your argument?

And doing the same thing over and over again is totally not what everyone has been complaining about in this thread, riiight?

[RobbieH]

And doing the same thing over and over again is totally not what everyone has been complaining about in this thread, riiight?

People have been mostly complaining about lack of end game and poor rewards.

[WellFooled]

When has gaming become something you do for the rewards rather than the gameplay itsself?

One of the points discussed in this thread and many others is that the gameplay itself is not rewarding enough to stand on its own (No customization, formulaic dungeons and trials and raids, etc). So its not surprising that players are looking for their rewards elsewhere in the form of in-game items. Ideally though content would be rewarding for both its gameplay and the in-game items gained from it.

If you want jumping puzzles, how about you go do the sightseeing log? Actually, if you want exploration, how about the sightseeing log?!

This is off topic, but I think the sightseeing log is an interesting case study in how not to reward players with gameplay. The original ARR sightseeing log had very cool riddles on where to find each point. That makes for rewarding gameplay. If you didn't cheat, the puzzle itself was rewarding to solve on your own or with your friends, plus there are some cool platforming challenges involved in some.

But those sightseeing points also required a certain time of day and weather. So once you figured out the puzzle, once you succeeded in mastering the platforming elements...you had to wait, sometimes for hours, sometimes for days (one log I remember trying to complete would always stop having the required weather the second the required time arrived. I have still not completed that log). That isn't even gameplay. So what would have been a rewarding piece of content (even without any in-game rewards) was destroyed.

When HW sightseeing logs were added the time/weather requirements were removed, but so were the riddles and the platforming elements and the points were given visible indicators. So any sort of gameplay substance was removed from sightseeing logs. At best HW sightseeing is just busy work. Flying around and looking for glowing circles.