Crafting price negotiations, or lack thereof. A small rant.

[zemogFC]

Are you providing the mats OP or are you wanting the crafter to buy/gather everything for you and take a 20% MB hit?

If you're providing mats, people are just being jerks with the anonymity of being online.

If you're wanting them to make everything from scratch and you also want a deep discount, they're thinking you're an A-hole and feel they've wasted enough time talking to you already.

[StouterTaru]

How much of a profit are the standard MB prices on your server? If you have competitive crafters, 20% off the MB price could be break even or a loss. Price the ingredients, then put a number on half an hour of the crafter's time.

My guess is the crafters you spoke with looked at material cost, and realized it wasn't worth their time to sell at MB prices, let alone a 20% discount.

[SwdVengeance]

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I'll refer you to an earlier post. As I stated, I do research what I'm asking so I'm aware what the profit margin is that I'm asking them to take. I also make sure they are making a solid number. 20%, once again, is only my initial, opening, I tell them I'll negotiate from here, number. It's never ever been anything I ever expect to pay.

That said, let's work with the specific example I gave for a minute. Average completed product ranges from 100k-160k going by avg sale history. Lets say 150k a piece for ease, that's 2.4m for a full set of them, per MB pricing. Base materials, combined, average out to be around 1.3-1.4m. Just as reference material, there's the numbers as of right now. Given that, you're telling me that it's unreasonable to open with a 2m offer on a combined finished product, that is asking for slightly under a 20% markdown. I hardly feel that's anywhere near, "That person must be trollin', I'm just going to ignore," levels. Profit margin is solid, yes I'm asking for more than the 5% tax to be knocked off, but that's a very solid opening offer.

So here I'll just ask, does 20% (by the math it's actually 18.3%) markdown seem so ridiculous here as an initial offer? To quote ZemogFC, am I an 'A-hole' for this? I hardly believe so given sale speed and profit margin. I do appreciate the feedback, and it would seem haggling isn't something very commonly practiced. This thread alone is kinda telling as the 20% seems to be a hill people are struggling to climb over, even given I never expect to pay that. Admittedly this remains a bitter pill for me to swallow, and I'm honestly surprised how many people seem completely shocked that I find it off putting being almost universally ignored.

[Deathgiver]

If you're actually offering 2 million like you said on page 2, there's no way you're going to find a crafter that will craft everything from scratch. I just logged into Gilgamesh to check, and the average going rate is for the items is more in the range of 250k-350k depending on the item, which means the actual market value of those items is 4-5.6 million. If someone's going to do all the work to look up the recipes, gather/buy the materials, and synth everything from scratch (all 32 synths), they could just as easily be listing it on the market board at going rate. If, on the other hand, you provide all materials and offer a tip it might be a bit of a different story. Either way, you're asking for someone to have 8 jobs geared out to 1 star levels and to provide you with time/effort for a fraction of the value they could get synthing and selling themselves.

[StouterTaru]

I'll refer you to an earlier post. As I stated, I do research what I'm asking so I'm aware what the profit margin is that I'm asking them to take. I also make sure they are making a solid number. 20%, once again, is only my initial, opening, I tell them I'll negotiate from here, number. It's never ever been anything I ever expect to pay.

You're asking someone to put their gil up front, do all the work, assume all the risk, and spend half an hour of their time doing so. For what, 600k profit when they could be making 1M putting it up on the MB? That's 40% off their profit, for skipping the MB.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

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Thing is, you need to be mindful of the market. I don't particularly mind if someone wants to haggle, yet at the same time, I may not bother with the transaction because I can just as easily put the item on the MB and get a better price. People likely aren't responding because they, too, can't be bothered with someone fighting them on a price. Most crafters already have a set number in mind and aren't interested in offers below it. This is largely due to the fact they know they'll sell the item eventually. So they don't need to deal with someone haggling them.

[PArcher]

Besides the points that have been said already (yes, if you are not providing materials, 20% off is too much to start. Start at 10% off MB value of the finished goods, maybe 15% if you're confident), how you approach the crafters is HUGE. I've had people ask for crafts that I would have been all too happy to craft if they were respectful. If you start out too forceful or just rude, people will ignore you or think you're nothing more than a troll or waste of time.



But the biggest problem is probably the fact that you aren't providing mats, but want someone to craft you stuff. Unless I can trust the person, I wouldn't go out and buy all the mats for any *'d craft (lv50 or lv60) just to craft it for them, especially at a price cut. If anything...I'd charge more for all the extra work I have to do.


I've haggled down the price of items before, and have had to haggle with people looking for crafts. Be respectful above all.

[Deathgiver]

Would also like to point out that what you're perceiving as a 20% reduction in selling price is actually a lot more significant reduction to profit. Using the numbers you cited, 2.4 million for a full set crafted, 1.4 million for mats, the crafter makes 1 million off the whole set. You offering them 2 million means you're asking them to make 600k off the set, a full 40% reduction in profit.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Wait. You didn't have any of the mats and expected people to gather them for you? Okay, I misread that. In this case, it's scarily a shock at all most people didn't even offer a response. I probably wouldn't either, especially if I can sell the items well above your preferred price. Frankly, if I'm doing all the work, why would I give you any kind of discount? This isn't the same as someone coming up with all the materials and just asking I craft it for them. Those I'll do for free because it takes no time whatsoever. What you're asking for loses me gil and/or takes considerably longer.

[Almalexia]

My advice to OP and anyone who wants to sell DoH services through /sh, PF, whatever:

Buyers - don't go to anyone that has a pricing structure. These people invariably believe they're super-elite because they picked the flavor-of-the-month job crystal. As a result, you will be charged something stupid--but not even ALC is as rare as everyone thinks. Keep your eyes peeled for other PF offers or /sh. You WILL find someone who takes tips only or does pro bono crafting.

Sellers - don't ask for a price. As long as the client provides you the mats, just ask for tips -- "whatever you think is fair" -- and people will always overestimate what you think is reasonable. Always. You will get more business and greater goodwill. If you want huge chunks of cash, make the damn thing yourself and sell it on your own terms. It's easier to make 1M in an hour from five people tipping than 1M in 6 hours from two people paying a flat rate.

Oh, and if they don't provide the mats tell them to piss off and /laugh (this part is important).