The question for Monday: Why do you need your clear asap?

[Dalvy]

Learning groups phase out and the gap between players with experience and those wanting to do content expands. Even now, you're going to be waiting a whilr for ex and coil groups.

Get it while it's hot.

[Maero]

I agree with Fynlar, also possibly for bragging rights or something? I know some groups do so.
Also for example it makes it rather pointless doing content like Primals for example that drop weapons but doing it months and months after, but hey glam is end game

[Fynlar]

Yep. To reiterate, the PF is not only a tool that you can use for joining, but also for POSTING YOUR OWN DAMN LEARNING PARTIES.

Do you really think we're all too stupid as to have not figured this out (and for at least some of us, attempted this) on our own?

[Atoli]

I haven't tried Nidhogg yet so no idea about that fight, but based on my previous experience, if you reach a phase without failing before that, what is wrong with wanting to train from there?
I don't need training in phase 1-4 if I make it to 5 without trouble, even if I did not wipe 500 times in each previous phase to "get used to it" or whatever. Some people learn faster than others, so what's wrong with it?
It takes me one, at most two wipes to get the mechanics of a fight down, up to 4 to perfect my timing on selfbuffs and the like (again, based on previous fights, no idea how Nidhogg will be for me). I don't see any reason to keep wiping in phases I can already do without fail...

What you are actually complaining about is people joining who don't know what to do in previous phases. This has nothing to do with the amount of training they got though, simply with them wanting to get pulled through to get a win without putting in the actual work. I joined a Sephi EX clear party a while ago, and when I asked 5!! of 8 people admitted that they were entering the fight for the first time. Their expectation being that 7 others would be good enough to clear so them failing wouldn't matter, right?

[Archaell]

...?

Nothing is wrong with that. It is absolutely fine if you can do it without failing too much. The amount of pratice is of course subjective, some get it faster some later, the issue starts when the players join a training party for phase 4 while failing in phase 2 or 3 multiple times etc. They overestimate their experience making it frustrating for the rest of the party who actually might have practiced the previous phase 100 times before to get through it flawlessly, instead of joining phase 2-3 training, which would also help the players there to learn the phase coz they should have some practice in it already and could provide guidance.

[Xlantaa]

It is simple. The more time pass, the harder become find a party. THis will respond your question. How many Ravana Ex training/clear party you've seen? That's it. People want clear Nidhogg as soon as possible, cause in few months or even less ,no one will join a traing party anymore. letting this people without a clear (I hate it a lot, it is a very bad desing fail here), then is when Square Enix open the trial Ex to Duty finder, to give a chance to this players (even knowing clear in DF is a miracle).

[Atoli]

Nothing is wrong with that. It is absolutely fine if you can do it without failing too much. The amount of pratice is of course subjective, some get it faster some later, the issue starts when the players join a training party for phase 4 while failing in phase 2 or 3 multiple times etc. They overestimate their experience making it frustrating for the rest of the party who actually might have practiced the previous phase 100 times before to get through it flawlessly, instead of joining phase 2-3 training, which would also help the players there to learn the phase coz they should have some practice in it already and could provide guidance.

I was mainly refering to this part:

“I got to the phase 5 once, so clearly I mastered all the previous phases!”
Really? I saw this attitude several times. People getting to the fang phase once and suddenly being too good for training the previous parts.

Like, I think there is nothing wrong with joining a p5 (Nidhogg) party even if you only reached it once, if the fails before that were not on you. When I was trying to clear Thordan EX, I had only reached the end once and still would have rather wanted to join clear parties, because I didn't mess up before that, my other party members did. It gets incredibly frustrating to die to the same bull again and again because you join parties for below your own progress level. Why should I keep wiping in a phase 2-3 (Nidhogg) training party if I have already made it to phase 5 without mess-ups?
If I actually end up failing during phase 1-4, you are free to kick me, as I obviously do not fulfill the requirements for this party.

Sorry, a bit heated about this topic as I know way too many people who ended up never clearing content at all because of their friendly mentality of "I should better gather more experience in the lower phases even though I already did them 100 times without fail".

[MeiUshu]

[QUOTE=LineageRazor;3748445] snipQUOTE]

Seriously, you think those like me didnt try ? we did try...we simply dont bother anymore or just wait for it to be in DF..eventually.

As to why people want clear within the first hour ? it was explained already because after that first hour you already are requested to be a Genius.

[Archaell]

People want clear Nidhogg as soon as possible, cause in few months or even less ,no one will join a traing party anymore.

Isn't this fear feeding itself? If players took it easy the learning parties would stick around longer.

...

I don't mind a little bit of heat. ^^

My view point is that players practicing too much make the PF better, while players doing the opposite are harmful.

My concern is that this:

Like, I think there is nothing wrong with joining a p5 (Nidhogg) party even if you only reached it once, if the fails before that were not on you... If I actually end up failing during phase 1-4, you are free to kick me, as I obviously do not fulfill the requirements for this party.

Can actually lead to this:

people who ended up never clearing content at all because of their friendly mentality of "I should better gather more experience in the lower phases even though I already did them 100 times without fail"

The player who is not ready for the phase can be kicked of course but it is already decreasing morale for the rest of the party and if enough of these players get in one group it leads quickly to the disbanding while slowing down the overall PF progression.

[Vaer]

On Excalibur, the learning parties drop off pretty fast. On day 1 there were already farm parties. SephirotEX on our server pretty much died when they added the lore weapon and relic upgrade. I expect Nidhogg to also drop from relevance in 3.35. If you pug, you need to get a clear ASAP and that is where this mentality comes from. It's not a huge issue if you have people to play with but if you are trying to pug a mount drop or something it becomes a rush to get a clear so you can actually farm it before everyone finishes doing so. It eventually goes from learning to no bonus farm parties after a bit. So basically, Nidhogg has about a month of life left I would say. Not sure of other servers though.

Really, it's somewhat SE's fault for obsoleting content so fast.