Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[mirta000]

People still like choice, even if it does not matter in the larger scheme. What if Ninja's had boots of the same ilvl and had to choose between moving 25% faster or using boots like a trinket to ignore knock backs for 10s. Neither of those choices are gaming breaking, but both could be extremely useful in different situations.

choice sums up to "you use what is objectively better, or you will be told to get out".

[zosia]

choice sums up to "you use what is objectively better, or you will be told to get out".

Again, if you're joining a pug, that seems like a logical line of thought to me. If a player wishes to play their own way, they should just play with like minded people. I don't understand the problem.

I'm always calm, just blunt. Yeah it can be grating but I have given my reasoning - optimisation.

It's a real issue that affect MMO communites and I've never seen it do good, "it's easy to say well casuals don't need to bother with it" which is true but then it doesn't work like that. People want their characters to be the best they can be so if their is a optimal build people flock to it just like FoTM classes. It doesn't take much for it to become the norm and then those damn dirty hipsters (jk) that don't follow suit quickly become targets. I like our community and do not like the idea of seeing it devolve into a cesspool over a few stats.

That is far more than "because I don't like it".

I'm perfectly happy to have you address if you feel inclined to do so and I agree that perception has probably clogged my thinking.

In a game where "ice mage" is something you can run across in your roulette, I doubt even a fraction of your concerns would play out on live serves. People in this game don't generally care about optimization. Just go stroll around idylshire and check peoples gear. Even with the proliferation of grade V materia, people don't meld V's and even worse some don't meld at all.

I think you are are just being a worry wart over nothing. This game is super casual, it will always be super casual, and even with horizontal progression, it will remain super casual.

[mirta000]

Again, if you're joining a pug, that seems like a logical line of thought to me. If a player wishes to play their own way, they should just play with like minded people. I don't understand the problem.

but what is the point in adding that toxicity? I was in GW2 which ultimately summed up with "zerk or out".

[Underdog2204]

In a game where "ice mage" is something you can run across in your roulette, I doubt even a fraction of your concerns would play out on live serves. People in this game don't generally care about optimization. Just go stroll around idylshire and check peoples gear. Even with the proliferation of grade V materia, people don't meld V's and even worse some don't meld at all.

I think you are are just being a worry wart over nothing. This game is super casual, it will always be super casual, and even with horizontal progression, it will remain super casual.

Oh it's there just hidden. Routlette isn't challenging enough really for people to be overly concerned about it but as soon as things start getting a bit more difficult that facade falls apart.

I was in Burden of the Son Normal and some poor DRG was getting ripped to shreds by 3 other people because his dps wasn't great. To be fair his dps wasn't great but that doesn't justify that kind of treatment. It only takes one wipe for people to quit content in groups, speed run expectations etc.

Combine this with calls for more challenging content like Weeping City, then add ontop of that the optimisation I'm worried about and it's not great.

[zosia]

but what is the point in adding that toxicity? I was in GW2 which ultimately summed up with "zerk or out".

adding that toxicity? For starters, it's not toxic, that's just how life works. If you want to operate and participate in a public space (such as joining a random PF pug), you will perform in line with what is ever generally agreed upon. If that does not suit your needs, you make your own group or find one that agrees with your performance standards.

That's how things are now, as we speak, on live servers. Try joining a niddhog EX party choosing to only cast ice spells as a blm or wearing str accessories as a tank. YMMV just depending on the people you play with and the groups you join. If you join a serious progression PF group and you are just casting ice spells or insist on using outdated builds, you should be kicked.

These are realities people already face in-game and it would not change or be exacerbated by any 'toxicity' problems. People who don't tolerate sub par un-optimized game play will continue to do so and people who do tolerate will continue to tolerate those behaviors.

I think this unfounded absurd fear of scrutiny hurts this game at so many turns. That's why we can't have nice things. That's why we can't have in game parser, That's why our gear selection is between vanilla paste and vanilla paste + cool whip. That's why weeping city has been so controversial.

[Underdog2204]

adding that toxicity? For starters, it's not toxic, that's just how life works. If you want to operate and participate in a public space (such as joining a random PF pug), you will perform in line with what is ever generally agreed upon. If that does not suit your needs, you make your own group or find one that agrees with your performance standards.

That's how things are now, as we speak, on live servers. Try joining a niddhog EX party choosing to only cast ice spells as a blm or wearing str accessories as a tank. YMMV just depending on the people you play with and the groups you join. If you join a serious progression PF group and you are just casting ice spells or insist on using outdated builds, you should be kicked.

These are realities people already face in-game and it would not change or be exacerbated by any 'toxicity' problems. People who don't tolerate sub par un-optimized game play will continue to do so and people who do tolerate will continue to tolerate those behaviors.

I think this unfounded absurd fear of scrutiny hurts this game at so many turns. That's why we can't have nice things. That's why we can't have in game parser, That's why our gear selection is between vanilla paste and vanilla paste + cool whip. That's why weeping city has been so controversial.

Scruity is fine it's how it's usually done that's the problem... The bolded part alone shows our concerns are justified.

I thought this whole thing was supposed to bring more choice to players? This isn't about players playing poorly or not knowing their class well it's about itemisation that's supposed to bring choice to players.

ie: Community generally agrees staff x is better than staff y, staff x becomes the accepted version for content.

^ optimisation taking away the choice that the new stats are supposed to offer.