Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[Caelum_Dragguell]

We'll see what happens in a year or two down the road when the formula causes everyone who is dedicated to the game to burn out. The Devs will continually focus on superficial content, and pay even less attention to the already lacking dungeons, 24 man raids, 8 man's, side content etc... When they finally stop caring whatsoever about challenging content and the vast majority of the playerbase is gifted everything on a silver platter, and the playerbase dwindles due to lack of rewarding and meaningful content like the decline of WoW, then maybe people will think back and say, oh maybe glamour and housing wasn't all that mattered.

[Caelum_Dragguell]

This being said I don't want to argue, I'm just asking for more content, not to take away from others. Done posting. Have fun

[Seraphix2407]

I thought they were saying if you're bored, might be time for a break. That is true of most games and not telling someone what to do.

Yes but most who do take a break never comes back. Keep in mind I raided with same guy for over 1 year and half and hes been in my fc for over 2 years. He quit the same day 3.3 patch notes comes out, said he might be back for 3.4 which I highly doubt, because it's the same thing all over again. From business perspective, they should also work on things to keep the remaining playerbase as well. I've had people who bought the game and hit max lvl then quit 1 week after because of how it is. You see, not everyone finds it amusing or fun sitting in limsa do emotes. Like the other guy wrote, 5% playerbase can beat certain content. I dont care if people wants to do roleplaying or simply use the game as a chat app, I respect them, however which I said many (can tell from people in here) kinda start attacking OP for having his opinion on end game. .So instead of saying op should quit or take a break, maybe put yourself in his shoes and try to understand? I know why people RP and I can somewhat understand, but RP for me was never a thing for me. I was excited when the japanese outfits came to NA market through amazon recently until many people just abused the system. Some people just seem to be selfish. Did many of those 5% (that some guy in here mentioned) whine about the gear coming out or not? Nope, because it wouldn't matter for them, why does it matter if square enix pulls more time into more end game content? You guys got your slice of the pizza, for once, stop being selfish. And even when most in the game wanted the buttler outfit many abused it, so GG. Ps I'm not saying you are one of those people, but I mentioned people from those 95% playerbase. So don't think this post is completely againt's you!

I do agree with constructive criticism though. Most people in customer related fields thrive on it since you gotta know what you are and aren't doing to make people satisfied.

I get you and I understand sometimes a break is good for some people, but keep in mind, the game has ran the same formula for nearly 4 years. Do you honestly many who come back from a ''break''? A few does, many doesn't. Do I honestly want to play this game when new expension comes out with the same formula? Nope. I've giving SE many chances and only sticking out because some of the latest patches was decent and I had my share of fun, however it is getting boring with the same formula. For you it might not make any difference, asuming you don't do end game so often (correct me if I'm wrong please!), doesn't mean it should be fine to keep this game end game free or suddenly turn into some e-wife simulator that some people already pretend it is.

[Lorielle]

I was going to make a long post, but I got annoyed half way.

> XI's foundation is much more than XIV. That was my point.
> I get the market changes. But players can also adapt. They're not beyond that.
> Never said anything about gating. Only that things can be learned with challenged content. It doesn't need to be faceroll. See above point.

Snip

I see what you're doing. "What you find enjoyable is not the same as someone elses" argument. No. Please. Not even what I'm trying to get at.

How is X thing any different from X thing in XIV? The Journey was much more memorable. Why? Because it was a struggle. Hardship. Is there a struggle in this game? Actually yes, but ironically, it's not a rewarding struggle. It's just an annoying one if that makes sense.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

The issue with horizontal progression is that it feels precisely like stagnation, at least to me. You aren't getting stronger. You aren't getting tougher. You're just kinda hanging around power level x with nearly imperceptible movement northward or southward, at least in my opinion.

[LalafellDown]

Now this is just not true at all. Yes, the gear did get replaced, but the better your gear was at the end of 2.55 the longer it took for a replacement to come up.

right, but there was no point of gearing up in the first place. All your money wasted on materia/crafting material was pointless because all I had to do is wait for the lvl to increase to 51. I didn't have to spend Gil or time working for those nice glamor items. the lvl 51+ gear was enough to make anything you wanted in 2.55. So i can stop playing now and come back at lvl 61 and not miss out on anything because lvl 61 crafting gear will be better than lvl 60 ilvl xxx crafting gear. crafting gear will be handed out like candy in the story quest and sell on the market board/NPC for cheap just like during 3.0 release.

That 2.55 gear may last to lvl 56 or so, but all i did was craft up the lvl latter to 60 with zero effort.

[LalafellDown]

If 2.55 gear was required in order to make lvl 51 gear then i would have spent all that time working hard, but i didn't have to. Hence the next tomestones will replace lore and i can stop playing. If we were required to have a full set of lore gear before stepping in 3.3 dungeon than it would be worth gearing up for. This games life depends on patches filled with new stuff and not fun. The fun ends when you hit the top and grinding is not required to continue to the next patch

[WellFooled]

The issue with horizontal progression is that it feels precisely like stagnation, at least to me. You aren't getting stronger. You aren't getting tougher. You're just kinda hanging around power level x with nearly imperceptible movement northward or southward, at least in my opinion.

That's a good point and maybe purely horizontal progression isn't what the game needs, but I would argue that the vertical progression that we have now also results in stagnation. We are getting tougher, but not in any meaningful way. A patch roles out that gives us gear with 20 more strength on it, but that same patch's content has monsters with 20 more defense and 2000 more health. The numbers are getting larger, but nothing about us really changes. While a more horizontal system wouldn't increase the numbers it would give us gear that adjusts our abilities or gives new abilities, grants passive traits, or even just has more interesting and complex stats. That to me would seem like less stagnation than what we have now.

[Underdog2204]

That's a good point and maybe purely horizontal progression isn't what the game needs, but I would argue that the vertical progression that we have now also results in stagnation. We are getting tougher, but not in any meaningful way. A patch roles out that gives us gear with 20 more strength on it, but that same patch's content has monsters with 20 more defense and 2000 more health. The numbers are getting larger, but nothing about us really changes. While a more horizontal system wouldn't increase the numbers it would give us gear that adjusts our abilities or gives new abilities, grants passive traits, or even just has more interesting and complex stats. That to me would seem like less stagnation than what we have now.

It sells really well but it just doesn't hold up under scrutiny imho.

Yes there will be choice but that is only until someone does some number crunching and all of that choice is gone, it's just an illusion of choice like skill trees are. I would prefer things not be overhauled for what will end up being a pointless exercise... I'm not even touching on the massive balance issues that tend to occur frequently with such a system.

Good job forums for showing further proof on how a chunk of people are getting alienated. There was no need to turn this into an argument. More content is more content. You can't say do other stuff to enjoy the game more when all we're hearing are Devs spending "a lot of time" on 3 different sleep poses and housing when we've spent so much time subbed and waiting on new content that we can actually appreciate. Yea more housing, glamour, and poses are cool, but now what? If we don't like where the game is we quit, is basically what you're saying.

If stating basic common sense like taking a break from a MMO when burned out is alienating you then you are doing it to yourself tbh.

Everybody should take a break from any MMO they are playing if they are finding themselves suffering from burnout... It's a game not a job... Hell even in jobs you take time off.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I was going to make a long post, but I got annoyed half way.

> XI's foundation is much more than XIV. That was my point.
> I get the market changes. But players can also adapt. They're not beyond that.
> Never said anything about gating. Only that things can be learned with challenged content. It doesn't need to be faceroll. See above point.



I see what you're doing. "What you find enjoyable is not the same as someone elses" argument. No. Please. Not even what I'm trying to get at.

How is X thing any different from X thing in XIV? The Journey was much more memorable. Why? Because it was a struggle. Hardship. Is there a struggle in this game? Actually yes, but ironically, it's not a rewarding struggle. It's just an annoying one if that makes sense.

Evidently, you don't, because your post literally demands people adapt to how you want the game to be played. If the market changes, why in the world would games stubbornly stick to old formulas that no longer garner interest? That's financial suicide. Wildstar attempted that and will likely shut down by the year's end because of it.

The journey was more memorable to you. I, on the other hand, find a year or two long "journey" for a weapon upgrade mind numbingly boring. No amount of flavor text will make grind quests appealing. FFXIV's closest example would be doing Beast Tribe dailies for the ilvl 210 Anima step. Those are not fun. Instead, I have increased desire to burn down the Sylph forest every time Boars Wars rolls up. Sure, the actual quests with the tribe leaders is cute, but all those little quests you do to build reputation? Boring. I'm not alone in this mindset either considering the majority of players don't even touch the harder content, let alone care about the Anima weapon or stuff like it. Hence why I reiterate this game simply may not be for you long term.

This doesn't even touch another significant issue with horizontal progression. If the best gear is gated behind this "struggle," then anyone wanting to get into raid content will now have to do it. Most won't nowadays, which is why you don't see games like FFXI or Vanilla WoW anymore.