Alienation of Dedicated and Skilled players

[Welsper59]

On another note it's gotten so bad as to make me play FFXI as I view it to have way more depth than FFXIV in its current state. For those who have played FFXI I'm sure many of you understand how I'm feeling at this stage and I hope you will help the development team see they need a change

That's because it does have way more depth. It has 14 years of content lol. Just because it's old, doesn't mean it isn't worth your time if it offers what you want. That'd be like looking back at FFVI or Chrono Trigger or other classic Square Soft games (Mario RPG included), and it's devalued just because of its age lol. XI is still a full-fledged game and one that is different from XIV. Perhaps XI, which is still being updated (now) monthly, is more to your liking than XIV in general. I still sub to it and play lol.

You don't have to put yourself in a position that you have to love everything from SE, nor does SE have to subject themselves to creating things that you like but they don't care to do. It's okay to not like this game anymore. While I do agree vehemently about itemization change and so on, it's not a big deal to not enjoy the game anymore. It happens and we move on. If you do, then feel free to come on back if you miss it or things change. These days, there's so many other games to play that you're going to find something else that actually does cater to your wants. I never cared much for free-build/survival type of games like Minecraft, but I absolutely love Subnautica, despite it still being an Early Access title.

[Lorielle]

SNIPPY

It's not even about XI having 14 years of content(that's just story talking by the way. If you even knew how XI gotten past Abyssea, you'd know it went downhill). It's just the fact that Vanadiel was far more immersive because nothing was instant. You had to -WORK- for whatever your goal was. Walking to one place to another. Completing a specific mission. Getting your subjob, etc. Then there was Horizontal Progression which made gear relevant for a Loooooooong time. Even if it wasn't it had updates to make it stay relevant(Dynamis Relics). XIV on its own is just. Unlock Job, Level to max and then...Raid? If you're even into that. Nothing is challenging you anymore other than find 7 other competent players to complete a duty. That Relic you grinded many hours for? Just energy for your next relic step or Glamour!

We get that Yoshi is catering to the louder voice because it's money. It's why we have a Cash Shop. It's why things get nerfed. It's why we have casuals that don't know what rotations are. It's why we have Stone, Sky, Sea. These things could have been learned from out the gate if they actually challenged us out the gate, but they don't. Instead we have to make X player suffer to teach X player how to do what. It's one thing to mentor a newbie, it's another thing to teach someone what to do at level 60.

[Ilenya]

...It's why we have Stone, Sky, Sea...

Isn't that entirely so people could practice rotations in a way that both allows you to learn them while giving you a goal towards pushing for? I am thinking the correct thing, right? Are you saying everyone should only learn rotations against end-game things where, depending on the fight, you can't learn it on the fly?

Just like Heavensword replaced all of the hard work/Gil spent on crafting gear with lvl 51.

Now this is just not true at all. Yes, the gear did get replaced, but the better your gear was at the end of 2.55 the longer it took for a replacement to come up.

[Lorielle]

Isn't that entirely so people could practice rotations in a way that both allows you to learn them while giving you a goal towards pushing for? I am thinking the correct thing, right? Are you saying everyone should only learn rotations against end-game things where, depending on the fight, you can't learn it on the fly?

What goal was that? A false check that isn't viable because there's no mechanics being thrown at you? It's much better for you to actually figure these things out during the fight themselves because that is realistic. Our dummies outside the house were fine variables enough to test our rotations and raise DPS, bring out different points of execution.

Now this is just not true at all. Yes, the gear did get replaced, but the better your gear was at the end of 2.55 the longer it took for a replacement to come up.

What? Four levels more? That sure didn't take too long to replace your hard worked gear.

[Ilenya]

What goal was that? A false check that isn't viable because there's no mechanics being thrown at you? It's much better for you to actually figure these things out during the fight themselves because that is realistic. Our dummies outside the house were fine variables enough to test our rotations and raise DPS, bring out different points of execution.

Considering I've not bothered with the place myself and don't do high-end raids, my knowledge as a whole of the place is fairly limiting, but the dummies outside the houses do not offer a DPS check like I am aware SSS does.

What? Four levels more? That sure didn't take too long to replace your hard worked gear.

Considering the person tried to claim that it was replaced nearly instantly, yes, I am right in calling that out.

[LalafellDown]

Now this is just not true at all. Yes, the gear did get replaced, but the better your gear was at the end of 2.55 the longer it took for a replacement to come up.

right, but there was no point of gearing up in the first place. All your money wasted on materia/crafting material was pointless because all I had to do is wait for the lvl to increase to 51. I didn't have to spend Gil or time working for those nice glamor items. the lvl 51+ gear was enough to make anything you wanted in 2.55. So i can stop playing now and come back at lvl 61 and not miss out on anything because lvl 61 crafting gear will be better than lvl 60 ilvl xxx crafting gear. crafting gear will be handed out like candy in the story quest and sell on the market board/NPC for cheap just like during 3.0 release.

That 2.55 gear may last to lvl 56 or so, but all i did was craft up the lvl latter to 60 with zero effort.

[LalafellDown]

If 2.55 gear was required in order to make lvl 51 gear then i would have spent all that time working hard, but i didn't have to. Hence the next tomestones will replace lore and i can stop playing. If we were required to have a full set of lore gear before stepping in 3.3 dungeon than it would be worth gearing up for. This games life depends on patches filled with new stuff and not fun. The fun ends when you hit the top and grinding is not required to continue to the next patch

[Ilenya]

right, but there was no point of gearing up in the first place. All your money wasted on materia/crafting material was pointless because all I had to do is wait for the lvl to increase to 51. I didn't have to spend Gil or time working for those nice glamor items. the lvl 51+ gear was enough to make anything you wanted in 2.55. So i can stop playing now and come back at lvl 61 and not miss out on anything because lvl 61 crafting gear will be better than lvl 60 ilvl xxx crafting gear. crafting gear will be handed out like candy in the story quest and sell on the market board/NPC for cheap just like during 3.0 release.

That 2.55 gear may last to lvl 56 or so, but all i did was craft up the lvl latter to 60 with zero effort.

There was no point in gearing up...At what point? Are you saying the people who geared up to prepare the pentamelds for those who did Coils wasted their time? Should they have just waited for 3.0 to hit to make those items, because I know that there was no way to successfully make those items without properly geared jobs or insane luck. You're basing this idea off of "Since I know X years down the line it's worthless, I shouldn't bother" forgetting that the entirety of gearing up was built on top of what you were doing already.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Isn't that entirely so people could practice rotations in a way that both allows you to learn them while giving you a goal towards pushing for? I am thinking the correct thing, right? Are you saying everyone should only learn rotations against end-game things where, depending on the fight, you can't learn it on the fly?



Now this is just not true at all. Yes, the gear did get replaced, but the better your gear was at the end of 2.55 the longer it took for a replacement to come up.

I didn't replace my right side till level 60 I used them to level all crafts. I dont even think i started really upgrading armour till 54-55 but I cant remember. I do know it was only tools main and body though.

[Welsper59]

It's not even about XI having 14 years of content(that's just story talking by the way. If you even knew how XI gotten past Abyssea, you'd know it went downhill). It's just the fact that Vanadiel was far more immersive because nothing was instant. You had to -WORK- for whatever your goal was. Walking to one place to another. Completing a specific mission. Getting your subjob, etc. Then there was Horizontal Progression which made gear relevant for a Loooooooong time. Even if it wasn't it had updates to make it stay relevant(Dynamis Relics). XIV on its own is just. Unlock Job, Level to max and then...Raid? If you're even into that. Nothing is challenging you anymore other than find 7 other competent players to complete a duty. That Relic you grinded many hours for? Just energy for your next relic step or Glamour!

We get that Yoshi is catering to the louder voice because it's money. It's why we have a Cash Shop. It's why things get nerfed. It's why we have casuals that don't know what rotations are. It's why we have Stone, Sky, Sea. These things could have been learned from out the gate if they actually challenged us out the gate, but they don't. Instead we have to make X player suffer to teach X player how to do what. It's one thing to mentor a newbie, it's another thing to teach someone what to do at level 60.

Abyssea was like 6 or 7 years into the game. There was QUITE A LOT of stuff introduced from launch till then, so it's not just story. Even if it's faceroll now, it's still stuff you can go do for the hell of it, if you choose to... and believe it or not, people do go to sky still for various reasons, like to level or to spawn the NMs because they happened upon the items through various means. All of the stuff you mentioned was part of its 14 years of content, which while some have gone wayward, like subjob items, the rest of it is still there. Besides that, story is still a significant part of the game... way more than it is in XIV, even though most of it is optional in XI.

Abyssea wasn't that bad, although it did change the game a lot, as far as groups went. They had to start changing the game though, since most people weren't exactly thrilled with the punishing nature and time requirements XI become infamous for. It's just the way the market went. Hence, they evolved to where they are now. Vastly different and very solo heavy, minus the majority of highest tier endgame fights, but still a good game if you like the ease... you just lose a lot of the forced grouping. Truth be told though, with it being this way, it really isn't all that different than any other MMO when playing with others. You gotta go out of your way to meet and befriend people, as they won't magically be friends with you if you don't engage in conversation lol.

Just so you know though, gating us to needing to do something before we can access stuff DOES NOT promote good players. There were tons of terrible players that made it past Maat in XI, and that ****er was hailed as one of the biggest challenges the game offered for a period of time. People choose to be terrible because they're either lazy, ignorant (not a bad word) of what to do, and/or playing in a way that suits them (i.e. wanting to experience something firsthand). No one learns endgame naturally and instantly. Not everyone understands the concept that endgame can change the way you do things (e.g. BRD). Short of them literally making every single obstacle you face in the game be equivalent in difficulty as a Savage mode progression raid, you're not going to only meet great players as you progress... hell, you'd probably not meet enough to make a raid before you'd end up quitting because the game feels "dead" lol. That Savage comment sounds stupid right? Well for what you're saying should be the case, it shouldn't sound stupid, because that's the only way you'll force players to be good when they hit 60 or endgame. If you dumb it down at all, it'll be far more possible for a bad player to slip through the cracks.