Please, Be careful what you wish for

[Reinha]

A small plot costs 4 mil, player A buys it from the game. Player A sells it to B for 4 mil and B has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player B sells it to C for 8 mil and C has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player C sells it to D for 12 mil and D has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player D sells it to E for 16 mil and E has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player E sells it to F for 20 mil and F has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player F sells it to G for 24 mil and G has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player G sells it to H for 28 mil and H has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player H sells it to I for 32 mil and I has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player I sells it to J for 36 mil and J has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player J sells it to K for 40 mil and K has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player K sells it to L for 44 mil and L has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. Player L sells it to M for 48 mil and M has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. . . . . . . . Player S sells it to T for 76 mil and T has to also buy the plot from the game for 4 mil. . . . .

The reality is that punishing selling for profit shouldn't be the key focus, the focus should be making a system so that plots can be sold for reasonable profit to encourage the changing of hands.

At which point does the profit become unreasonable? In my above example no one was making any profit, but only passing the gil sink to the next buyer by asking what they paid. The effect is multiplied horrendously in the case of medium and large plots.

If the devs and community ended up deciding on a reasonable price and decided to cap the trading price, then everyone would end up having to pay the designated gil loss that comes with each exchange of hands, so what is the point of the higher price? For example, pay the seller the capped 20 mil amount and then pay the game 4 mil to claim a small house, sell forward for the capped 20 mil amount; you still lose 4 mil for owning a house. This is the same as paying only 4 mil and gaining 0 gil from getting rid of it, so why not just forbid any form of house selling? Wanna own a house, pay the set price. No more, no less. It's fair for everyone.

[Ryel]

At which point does the profit become unreasonable? In my above example no one was making any profit, but only passing the gil sink to the next buyer by asking what they paid. The effect is multiplied horrendously in the case of medium and large plots.

If the devs and community ended up deciding on a reasonable price and decided to cap the trading price, then everyone would end up having to pay the designated gil loss that comes with each exchange of hands, so what is the point of the higher price? For example, pay the seller the capped 20 mil amount and then pay the game 4 mil to claim a small house, sell forward for the capped 20 mil amount; you still lose 4 mil for owning a house. This is the same as paying only 4 mil and gaining 0 gil from getting rid of it, so why not just forbid any form of house selling? Wanna own a house, pay the set price. No more, no less.

Your post assumes that the way house selling works stays the same as it currently is.

What I had suggested is that there should be an in-game alternative to selling housing to alleviate the issue, in which case you wouldn't need to pay someone to relinquish the plot and then buy the plot after but rather you would be able to buy the land title or "deed" directly.

If i had to spitball a system I would take real life property trading as a base:

lets say a plot would have a base price and could be re-sold for that same base price plus a small percentage increase decided by the server, additionally I would also allow for the selling of built upon and furnished plots which would even further increase their value if it means that they retain any additions made by the selling party, so the case would be that a fully furnished house would sell for more than a bare plot with a value estimated by the game based on the number of furnishings with a total max gil cap at a reasonable value.

lets say for example player (A) buys a large plot for 50mil and wants to resell it, maybe they should be able to sell the land deed to player (B) for a maximum amount of 60mil if the plot is in the same bare condition that they bought it in (nothing built).

However if player (A) built a house on top of the bare plot and fully furnished the house (hit furnishing cap indoors and outdoors) they then should be able to sell the fully furnished as-is plot to player (B) for a maximum of 65mil instead but would obviously lose all furnishings inside the house with the sale.

Assume in both cases the player would be able to adjust the price to anywhere lower than the maximum value cap if they wished to.

That would be my personal "ideal" solution

You have to incentivize players getting property to change hands, if you don't players are more likely to just sit on plots and not use them at all which at the end of the day doesn't help anyone.

[Neophyte]

When I bought my house it was 5 mil. But now they start at three mil. If I give up my for 4 mil I can get reported? Really? I'm taking a 1 mill + lose and I can still get reported by that logic.

Yeah, and I spent several million gil on penta-melded craftet gear.
After getting midan ring @ 240 and 230 Mhach body/head I converted them to 2xCrit4 (~ 10k Gil worth) and 1xDet5 (~400k).

SE, please, I can only get like 20% back of what I spent??????? ... I'm entitled to get all my gil back, do something.


As said in other thread: Only thing SE has to do is to create a random time frame in which relinquished house show up again on the market. Like something between 16-36hours.
Make it random and no one can pay someone to relinquish and get the house without camping for 20h straight at the plot, which is far less attractive.

[KarstenS]

preventing players from selling plots will not magically open up more plots

You ignore the fact, that alot of the new plots (and also plots which got demolished earlier) got buyed by player just to resell them. The most sellers are not players that did use the house and now are not interested anymore.

If they would effectively prevent the plot selling, these players would not buy the plots anymore. So there would be more free plots to get sold to players that really wants them.

[Belhi]

One of the fundamental issues that has happened both times housing has opened up is rich players buying out large numbers of plots and then reselling them for an inflated price. It artificially drives up the price of housing and makes housing far less accessible than it was designed to be. They wouldn't need to ban the practice if it wasn't being exploited and causing problems.

[Reaperking386]

I am happy with this recent news from Yoshi P.

BURN THE HOUSE SCALPERS!

[Kit-Kat]

Yoshida stated that it was directed for those who obviously intended to make huge profit from it, making new characters and buying plots just to resell them on a high price, knowing that other players won't have a choice but to pay if they want a house and there are no plots left. You can still normally sell your plots unless you're just buying them to sell them for a higher price and nothing else.

[yexie]

Sure but what defines "profit' varies so widely between players it doesnt really help the situation. That and many players seem to have flat out ignored that part and simply say "See! selling plots is against the ToS so report all the players!"

That answer is also less likely to get players to relinquish land if they initally did buy it for profit.

Selling plots for profit shouldn't be an issue, selling it for "exorbitant" amounts should be, as resale is still the best way to get plots to change hands.

You forget that those players ONLY bought those house to make a profit from reselling. It's not like they bought them for something and now don't need them anymore and trying to make the best of their situation... I think it should have been handled much strikter even. You get caught trying to sell your house for profit they should take the house and make it available for the general crowd again. They should actually simply forbid it all together and just implement something, that in case of a server move, your house gets destroyed by the system (not having to do it yourself BEFORE you move) and you get 50% or more back once you hit your new server. Also why not make it able to sell back houses to the system for a certain amount of the value? There are many ways this can be handled apart from letting people sell their houses for a "little" profit (whatever that may be).

[Ryel]

You ignore the fact, that alot of the new plots (and also plots which got demolished earlier) got buyed by player just to resell them. The most sellers are not players that did use the house and now are not interested anymore.

If they would effectively prevent the plot selling, these players would not buy the plots anymore. So there would be more free plots to get sold to players that really wants them.

You forget that those players ONLY bought those house to make a profit from reselling. It's not like they bought them for something and now don't need them anymore and trying to make the best of their situation... I think it should have been handled much strikter even.

Except that I haven't forgotten this and i even made a point to mention those players specifically, In fact it would appear both of you are missing the point I'm afraid.

The players who have purchased a plot or in some cases multiple plots for no reason other than to sell them for profit are not going to suddenly give up their plots for break even values or less because Yoshida makes a comment saying that selling them is against the ToS.

In many cases those players may well end up just sitting on the plot permanently which effectively removes that plot from being available forever or at the very least until they decide they no longer want to play the game, after all you can still garden or make use of the plot and return some cash on the initial investment instead of it being worth nothing.

What actually will happen however is that they'll follow the more likely scenario which is to try to find ways outside of the game in order to sell their plot if they really are that concerned about profit but neither of these things helps anyone who is complaining about players selling housing.

These players however are not suddenly going to just up and leave the plots because sales are being reported, if anything it makes it more likely that some plots may never change owners. It may very well turn some house sellers into house collectors which doesn't help anyone at the end of the day.

[Airget]

When I bought my house it was 5 mil. But now they start at three mil. If I give up my for 4 mil I can get reported? Really? I'm taking a 1 mill + lose and I can still get reported by that logic.

By that logic you are saying if you buy a car for 10k you should be able to sell it back for 10k. But when you buy something, the price of said items tends to go down overtime, in the case of Housing, ya you wanted to buy it for 5mil, but then you decide you don't want it anymore and just want your input back? Isn't that a bit odd to ask? Cause then you are treating the gil you put into housing as a Deposit to let you enjoy the content that you are free to take back once you are bored with it.