[SPOILERS] Revelations from Patch 3.3

[Theodric]

-snip-

Yeah. It'd also be bizarre since if they wanted to use the 'Gestahl' plot point then the previous Emperor looked very similar to him. I also don't like the idea of Regula being Kefka. Some similarities are cool but there needs to be a unique twist - and having Regula absorb the Triad's power but still be loyal to the Emperor and Garlemald as a whole would be much more interesting to me.

I also want them to make Garlemald more sympathetic and less antagonistic. The Archadian Empire in FFXII should be the model for Garlemald, I think. Turning Garlemald into a generic evil empire would be a complete waste - and as we've seen with how everything was wrapped up in Ishgard in 3.3 I don't think we need another nation to suffer a gutting for the sake of reflecting dull real world modern day morality in place of depth and intrigue.

[Yasuhiro]

I would argue that, we don't need another reference to a past title... with Lahabrea playing Seymour... XIV is already saturated with shout-outs and references to past titles... besides, Seymour is just a specific instance of the "rival" archetype; said archetype includes other recurring bosses such as Gilgamesh, the Turks, Seifer, Beatrix (for a time), Gabranth, etc... the only thing that sets Seymour apart is his ability to assume monstrous forms after your first fight with him... that and the fact he is physically dead but the metaphysics of X let him linger far longer than he should have...

I agree with you about not needing another reference to a past title for warring triad but I think XIV, 2.0 onwards anyway, has pretty much established that it's a love letter to the series past and just puts a new spin on already existing stories and themes in the series and I'm okay with that, like all the allagan stuff is recognizable but it is their technology that they've made, same with Sephirot too, fans know who it is but in XIV it's its own thing just sharing similar themes.

Anyone else notice the cocoon writing underneath the clockwork Paladin/Knight's head? Noticed it when taking dungeon screenshots for a friend Did the allagans have the ability to travel to other worlds? It's pretty interesting if they can do that, I've always wanted to know more about them

[MilesSaintboroguh]

snip

And how can they be seen as sympathetic? While the generals so far seem to be about "We're doing this for your own good", both emperors we seen so far seem to only care about aggressive expansion. They're generic as you can get and in the end, we are still going to fight them to keep them out of Eorzea's backyard. The only sympathies I have is how they treat their own people.

[CyrusArjuna]

And how can they be seen as sympathetic? While the generals so far seem to be about "We're doing this for your own good", both emperors we seen so far seem to only care about aggressive expansion. They're generic as you can get and in the end, we are still going to fight them to keep them out of Eorzea's backyard. The only sympathies I have is how they treat their own people.

The same way we saw a fundamentalist theocracy in a sympathetic light once they got more development?

[Theodric]

The same way we saw a fundamentalist theocracy in a sympathetic light once they got more development?

Mm.

If and when Garlemald is addressed directly I have little doubt that it will be painted in a more sympathetic light. If it isn't then quite a lot of people are going to become rather bored, I'd wager, myself included. The developers are well aware that a great many Final Fantasy fans are rather keen on the franchise's antagonists. In many titles great efforts have been made to make the antagonists have sympathetic elements. Even in some cases where they've been more bad than good they've even been redeemed as part of the story - with Rufus and Kuja being the two most prominent examples.

Ideally when we do enter territory occupied by Garlean forces it'll play out much the same way as it did in FFXII when we entered territory occupied by Archadian forces. It makes sense to me because the story went to great lengths to bring peace to both sides in a war that spanned a thousand years. The war with Garlemald, however, hasn't spanned more than fifty years (give or take) and it's even easier for the developers to create sympathetic Garlean characters - loyal to their homeland and cause - given that they're more 'human' than the dragons are.

There's a chance they may not do that, of course, but then I think a lot of people on this board will be very worried if the story takes a turn towards painting the protagonists and purely good and the antagonists as purely evil.

[Morningstar1337]

I for one hope that when we do go to Garlemald, it would be via a Dungeon like the Sochen Cave Palace. I enjoyed Sohm Al's role in the narrative not as a destination unto itself, but an obstacle to be surpassed to continue the story

[Enkidoh]

I also want them to make Garlemald more sympathetic and less antagonistic. The Archadian Empire in FFXII should be the model for Garlemald, I think. Turning Garlemald into a generic evil empire would be a complete waste - and as we've seen with how everything was wrapped up in Ishgard in 3.3 I don't think we need another nation to suffer a gutting for the sake of reflecting dull real world modern day morality in place of depth and intrigue.

That is fair enough, and yes life is more than just black and white, the trouble is, and we have debated this in the past Theodric, is that SE themselves seem pretty dead set on Garlemald being nothing more than the 'evil empire' - the initial teaser information released back just prior to 1.0 demonized them as such in the very first sentence they were revealed (and continued to be referred to in the same way in the game's manual)!:

Not fifteen years past, a new threat appeared from the east-the mighty Garlean Empire. With its fleets of behemoth airships and warriors brandishing weapons that spewed streams of fire, it crushed Ala Mhigo, the most powerful of the six Eorzean city-states.

They say actions speak louder than words and given that a significant amount of the hardships facing Eorzea today are directly caused by the Garleans and their 'might-makes-right', 'we-can-run-your-lives-better-than-yourselves' mentality, I really don't see SE actually changing this view of Garlemald that much. Certainly we will begin to see more neutral Garleans, but again, the only Garleans that are not belligerent or outright evil, have long since defected to Eorzea and so the idea of Garlemald being the stereotyped 'evil empire' will remain for the foreseeable future, at least, to me it will.

[Theodric]

To be fair, Eorzea has a long history of being the site of conflict. Before Garlemald sought to conquer it Ala Mhigo tried the same thing. I don't believe that Garlemald's urge to expand is necessarily a sign that they're completely evil - unless, of course, you want to apply that same logic to every single country in the real world that sought to do the same thing throughout history. War is often far from black and white - but as it stands we've only really seen one side of the conflict for ourselves and a very biased account at that. Plus pretty much everything Garlemald has done that is 'bad' has been shown to occur within Eorzean itself even without Garlemald's meddling.

...and there's a pretty high chance that Garlemald itself is being manipulated by the Ascians. What becomes of that remains to be seen but it's unlikely to be pleasant for Garlemald itself - which would no doubt lead to a shaky alliance and offer of aid on the part of the Scions/Warrior of Light. Much like how we went into Ishgard when all accounts showed it wasn't a pleasant place...and then it turned out that it did, in fact, have more complexity than many suspected.

Besides, it's unlikely that we're going to go to Garlemald right away. If anything it'll be in 5.0, I suspect, once the rest of Eorzea has been explored. Which means the developers have plenty of time to build up Garlemald in a more sympathetic manner - and why would they not? Little so far has suggested that the developers are intent on making the ongoing story black or white.

As an aside, FFXV is going to have its own 'Empire' as a major plot point. If it does well - and I suspect that it will - then there's likely going to be a lot of people who want to see more of Garlemald's complexities and even direct inspiration taken from FFXV's counterpart.

[Dualblade]

4.0 would be the time to show the Garleans in a somewhat better light even as we try to help the Ala Mhigans, who as you said prior to the Garleans were the ones who tried to conquer atleast part of Eorzea. I'm also a fan of XII and think it'll be even easier to show that Garlemald itself isn't evil once we finally start getting there...but much like in XII we WILL still have to deal with Varis and co.

Also don't forget that the XII HD release will be out before 5.0, probably within the early 4.0 patch series. So if XV doesn't do it for empire sympathies that one might.

[MeowingKittens]

<snip>

Exactly. He craves power, but not world domination. People are far easier to control through commerce than through conquest. He's not a bad guy in the sense he doesn't act mailicious for the sake of being evil, but he can and WILL use any situation to his advantage to come out on top. He knows full well if you act like an evil dictator, people are going to desire to dispose of you as such. It's no secret he's a bit of a scumbag, but he's the kind of necessary evil you just put up with because it's both not worth the trouble and unjustified to get rid of him, especially since you risk someone worse taking over his position. Even a person such as him isn't completely devoid of some small measure of redeeming qualities.