Half-baked Thoughts of a Filthy Casual DRK

[MagiusNecros]

I imagine Drkdays problem is PLD and WAR don't have a full heal or die requirement. And that a DRK can never lift the Doom status by themselves. But like you've said for the content where the HG's and LD is needed the healers will have their eyes on you the whole time anyway to keep you topped off. And casual content rarely ever calls for any of the Tanks to blow their Ult on anything.

[SyzzleSpark]

I have said in this thread and in many others that I would not at all be opposed to DRKs getting that extra *nudge* in the utility department applicable when they aren't getting hit by things (notice how I don't use the term "OT" here..) However a raid DPS booster like the SS PVP buff would cause DRK to be hands-down the most desired tank, while also, ironically, somewhat hurting the job's MP management potential. DRK would also put WAR and PLD in a pipe and smoke them against a dummy.

Short of getting a slashing debuff, DRK really shouldn't get any extra DPS utility, and if it does get something else, it would need to be defensive, or generally supportive (things like TP or MP regen, CC, and aggro management call in this category).

But...

As I (once again) said previously, this isn't something that has been a hot topic recently.

Going from most recent to oldest on the first two pages we have:

1. Change Living Dead/Dark Passenger/Dark Dance! (this thread)
2. Make Dark Passenger/other skills cost health instead of mana! Make DRK into a totally different job so it fits the lore of the old games!
3. SS is better for DRK than Crit/Det!
4. Give DRK a silence!
5. I wanna use Blood Weapon in Grit!
6. Grit costs mana! Make it not cost mana!
7. Make Souleater heal out of Grit!

Nowhere did anyone mention anything about giving DRK a small boost in utility when Reprisal is not an option (i.e. when you're not getting hit). There were a handful of the usual "Just let us use Reprisal whenever!" (the most common suggestion being that you can use DA to proc it which means you could just throw it up literally any time you want willy-nilly and the DPS gain to DA usage ratio with Reprisal being 210 potency would only be outmoded by C&S...)

Its not that I don't think it is a reasonable suggestion, I'm just not referencing it because I'm responding to what I've observed people talking about, and that issue has barely come up at all. Instead, its been things like the list above.

And like I said, I would not fight you for a second on giving DRK due its moment in the spotlight. But people don't think about balance AT ALL when they make these suggestions. Almost every single one would push DRK leaps-and-bounds ahead of WAR in DPS, or ahead of PLD in utility, or both in mitigation, or just ahead of all of them in everything, OR completely break the job and render it completely unusable without constant babysitting (DRK using HP instead of mana).

I'm hardly badmouthing anyone. I just want folks to appreciate what we have instead of constantly trying to fix something that isn't broken. Things could most certainly be ADDED to DRK, but there is literally nothing that I would remove or change into something else.

[ADVSS]

yeah i mean its hard to balance jobs when theres only one job that cant benefit from some support jobs and healers buffs because....balance. I mean its not like its subject to the same rules of the previous 12 jobs before it at this point. This is ok though because it brings something to the table neither of the tanks do that arent hindered by this un team synergizing mechanic to begin with. And thats a big ass sword, plunge AND the ability to cut off the graphics on its damage mode in system settings because its an eye sore.

ignore the fact that it getting redicilous boosts in pvp, a mode where you have plenty of targets to syphon strike, all the time, yet they keep reducing the mp burn of darkside and up its damage potential. Its such a perfectly balanced tank, but lacks greatly in pvp when both tanks show the best extremes of what theyre supposed to do. Yet youll fight when people want even 1 more means to grant mp back, a better self healing rate, or changes to a skill that destroys the whole point of tank stance bloodweapon. cause yeah we locked that shit out of tank stance conveniently giving offtank 1 mp tap ability they can use, or main tank getting 1 mp recovery ability they can use. god forbid the mt have access to both, they dont need DA to boost DM outside of rotation or anything. oh hey they can sacrifice 400 potency attack for a 100 pot that gives a free syphon strike! and us casuals would do that cause were so stupid we cant manage mp, or we realize something is missing and makes absolutely no sense at all. balance is one thing. Warriors main dps moves are locked in deliverance, but they got full access to their tank moves in defiance. Pld isnt locked out of any of their move set at all. Drk has to have dps stance on to tank and dps. This makes great sense to me! cause ff logs can even tell you balance outside of bloated parse numbers right? dps dps dps dps the role icon is in blue btw

[Xenosan]

If anything, improvements to Living Dead / Holmgang would be QoL for informal party configurations, solo, and misc game content (MSQ solo instances, Hunts, Treasure Maps, etc.. Aqueous, Hall of Dead inc), nothing to do with Raids, like stated, if your static is coordinated, holm/ld are of small consequence, right?

Might as plug my LD/Holm ideas while I'm here,

Holmgang

Add Additional Effects to Fell Cleave, Decimate, Inner Beast, and Steel Cyclone while Holmgang's active. These skills consumes the Holmgang buff/debuff.

Fell Cleave: Guaranteed Crit chance (enemy has to be suffering from *your Holmgang debuff), effect fades on use
Decimate: +30% Crit chance (you have to be under the effect of Holmgang's debuff), effect fades on use
Inner Beast: +30% Crit chance, 1.5x Health return modifier (enemy has to be suffering from *your Holmgang debuff), effect fades on use
Steel Cylcone: +20% Crit chance, enemies hit with criticals are stunned, and 100% of damage dealt is returned as HP (you have to be under the effect of Holmgang's debuff), effect fades on use

Living Dead

Instead of switching to the Walking Dead debuff at 1 HP, DRK's HP pool simply goes negative. Easier on the eyes for healers, and changes the 'MP-sponge' aspect of Living Dead to a dynamic metric.

Dynamic being that amount of Heals needed to survive Living Dead is determined by the amount of damage received to begin with. (Otherwise, the skill is exactly as it was). Solo fighting Forneus and he clips you by just a hair after Chrysabyss (which reduces your HP to 10% of max), well instead of being Doom'd by a friggin ARR mob and it's unavoidable mechanic, you still have a fighting chance to make out okay.

If Another Victim's duration was reduced to 10 seconds, I don't think the PVP adjustment to Sole Survivor would have been completely implausible in PVE. Trick Attack is what exactly? a 2% raid-wide DPS increase, generously? Cut that in half, and that's 'game-breaking' utility for a tank? I'm sure there are plenty of progression groups who would have appreciated the addition.

Not that I'm displeased with the buff as it is, being PVP specific. It'll get me to test out DRK in PVP again,

only took ~10 months.

[Shinzee]

snip

Doing that to living dead would completely ruin it as "ultimate" cd vs the other 2 for raiding. Taking a8s as example eating the perpetual rey or later the final punch/final ray/final beam combo would put you in the negative 100 to 200k to heal through.

[Falar]

If they cut Sole Survivor to 10s I could see that. In regular, refill your mp time usage it would help get the finish as well.

Mostly I just like the idea of DS completely negating Grit. Grit being on the GCD is one of my biggest issues.

[Fluffernuff]

I'm hardly badmouthing anyone. I just want folks to appreciate what we have instead of constantly trying to fix something that isn't broken. Things could most certainly be ADDED to DRK, but there is literally nothing that I would remove or change into something else.

Honestly, you've been a bit aggressive. simply ASSUMING I "don't play the job right" because I personally feel the kit is wonky is a bit of an ad hominem. just because I feel its counter to it's design doesnt mean I dont use DADD or DADP. just because I feel it's poor design doesnt mean I use them with BP. I'm sorry I don't and can't play on a level someone somewhere deems "worthy".
but I'm not one to start some forum fight over it. you asked for the thought process of why I think this way? I THOUGHT I explained in my OP, but I suppose I didn't.

I started this thread and specifically stated it was NOT a "I demand these changes because i NEED them". I stated simply there are are some holes I personally felt existed and gave stupid ideas and offered the floor to others to discuss theirs. You've voiced that DRK is in an "ok" spot. thats fair. In fact, I feel that DRK is also fine. they're competitive with the other 2 tanks, after all. things are working.

That said, I still stand by my opinion. So here's my reasoning-
DADD + DADP. so we essentially stack evasion and blind and its a good mitigation tool. us having access to both blind and evasion is unique to DRK. Albeit it costs 4400 MP, but we have it. The thing is you've put this uniquely evasion "combo" onto a class that has abilities locked behind or reliant on actually taking the hits. THAT is contrary and poorly designed in my opinion.
We're simply making use of abilities presented to us. thats great and all, but that doesn't justify it's "as intended" to me. it's too contrary to itself. PLD and WAR dont step over their own feet like that. Working harder to get over design isnt my definition of "advanced"

LD, I admit, is more useful than I had assumed. simply because I havent been in that environment (frankly, it's a personal reason I don't feel has a place to be brought up over a forum just to justify my position). I still REALLY don't agree with a skill that actually says it kills you in it's tooltip being on a tank. I simply want it to have less input from someone else. CAN this be alleviated with communication and attention? yes. SHOULD it require specific communication and attention? I don't believe it should. As a side note, I believe it should be universally useful, not just as a "raid only tank buster" move. Which was also brought up DRK should get- another thing I didnt know they were "lacking"

As for the idea of Reprisal... I havent given it a whole lot of thought. I mean i suppose another 210 potency skill and a damage debuff would be nice in OT. but what other than reprisal would be nice to have in OT? I admit to being a little bitter the SS debuff being PvP only, but at the same time, it's obvious it would overshadow the other tanks- PLD moreso than WAR.
I mean the floors open for people to bring up ideas there. again, this isnt a "oh please SE! we NEED this! listen to UUUUS!" thread

SS is better for DRK than Crit/Det!

Since I made said thread, I feel obligated to correct you on this specifically. I was asking IF SS was even useful, and if it was, where should it be at. It was titled as such. a QUESTION about DRK and SS. What I got was "it's not useful, but more of it helps during the blood weapon window". That was enough for me on that matter, actually. because I asked and got an answer

[Mattelot]

I've noticed the ad hominem attacks by people who feel their opinion is the only opinion.

It's all about continuous improvement. Some of the best changes made in MMOs that I've played were derived from people who were not even remotely considered the Creme of the crop.

You can disagree all you want, I know I have.

[SyzzleSpark]

The thing is you've put this uniquely evasion "combo" onto a class that has abilities locked behind or reliant on actually taking the hits. THAT is contrary and poorly designed in my opinion.

Because the abilities you have that are locked behind being hit are:

1. Reprisal, which is barely noticeable on 1 mob when you're tanking 10.
2. Low Blow, same story as the above.
3. Blood Price, which has 25 seconds of downtime.

In an AoE scenario like a big dungeon pull, you don't CARE about Reprisal or Low Blow procs, and you should be mentally present enough to not boost evasion/blind targets while Blood Price is ticking.

DRGs can't maintain Blood of the Dragon while AoEing. Does that mean DRG is poorly designed? Just because you have a different list of priorities between a big dungeon trash pull and a single-target boss fight doesn't mean a job is poorly designed.

When Blood Price falls and you DA both Dance and Passenger together you dodge a HUGE (over 50%, I'll wager) portion of incoming damage. That is insane mitigation. And you're worried about Low Blow and Reprisal procs at this point? I'll admit I'm perplexed. You seem to be fussing over details and missing the big picture. I'd recommend you readjust your perspective and priorities in different situations and see that DRK has a time and place for everything, and when you execute skills in conjunction at the proper time, you'll find them extremely effective.

You'll forgive my aggression, its just that there are SO MANY OF THESE THREADS featuring ill-conceived views and suggestions about DRK and there HAVE been for months, ever since the game launched. But these all completely run contrary to the job's performance in content, which has been very good, and continues to be good now in this decidedly more physical raid tier (everyone said DRK would be toast in fights with physical damage). People have been saying nicely for a long time "if you do x, then y won't be a problem" with y being a mechanic of DRK that the OP questions or wants to change/buff/remove entirely

[Mattelot]

You think they're ill conceived, others do not. You just don't agree with them. There is a fine line between disagreeing with someone and pawning them off as dumb just because you feel they don't fit your profile of a worthy player.