Roulette for orphaned L50 content (Extreme Trial Roulette, or similar)

[Eorzean_username]

Feedback from users of Mentor Roulette seems to indicate that the i135+ Sync of L50 content is adequate to brute-force most older content at this point.

Compare these two examples:

• Titan Hard is part of Trial Roulette. I regularly clear this battle either with half the party dead / Landslided, or sometimes after a wipe or two (if the party is really disoriented, or off their game).
• Ultima's Bane is not part of any roulette. When my queue for this finally popped after 2 hours, we cleared it with one wipe (following an explanation about Aetherial Booms and Tank LB).

As a new player coming from L1-50 MSQ progression, it was counter-intuitive and very frustrating to be given a new quest ("Go kill Ultima again", "Go kill Garuda Extreme"), told by the quest explicitly to use Duty Finder, and then wait 2-3+ hours for a pop (if ever).

I would like to see an 'Extreme Trial Roulette' or similar, that would include Extreme Trials and other previously-difficult content that has now reached a point of being reliably brute-forced due to iLevels, Echo buffs, and community familiarity.

Examples of currently-orphaned content (ie, long queues and reliance on unsynced PF carries):

• Minstrel's Ballad: Ultima's Bane
• Howling Eye (Extreme)
• Navel (Extreme)
• Bowl of Embers (Extreme)
• Thornmarch (Extreme)
• Whorleater (Extreme)
• Striking Tree (Extreme)
• Ahk Afah Amphitheatre (Extreme)
• Urth's Fount

As for the Coils of Bahamut, which are also orphaned, I believe that may be crossing a threshold for Duty Finder random groups without some modifications to 1-shot and partywide-wipe mechanics.

[ruskie]

Has been often requested:
Duty Roulette: Trials EX
Duty Roulette: 8 man raids level 50
Duty Roulette: 24 man raids
Duty Roulette: 8 man raids level 60
Duty Roulette: 8 man raids

But Mentor roulette does take all the DFable content into it so you can get coils and other stuff in there I believe.

[bounddreamer]

When I get the extreme trials for mentor roulette I cringe, and I've been getting them fairly often. Most of the time people are barely geared enough to get into the instance and they don't know the fight. I would say failure rate for the extremes I've gotten has been 50% or more. The clears have been gratifying, but I really think people should do PF for learning these fights at the synced level.

[Cnidarian]

When I get the extreme trials for mentor roulette I cringe, and I've been getting them fairly often. Most of the time people are barely geared enough to get into the instance and they don't know the fight. I would say failure rate for the extremes I've gotten has been 50% or more. The clears have been gratifying, but I really think people should do PF for learning these fights at the synced level.

Not to mention that the majority of those runs end up with people who refuse to listen to advice or are just flat out ignoring anything typed into party chat. Nothing like Titan EX where half the raid is off the edge prior to heart phase (or taking a swim on Levi). Even after thoroughly explaining the fights, you still have the same people doing the same mistakes over and over again.

[Snugglebutt]

When I get the extreme trials for mentor roulette I cringe, and I've been getting them fairly often. Most of the time people are barely geared enough to get into the instance and they don't know the fight. I would say failure rate for the extremes I've gotten has been 50% or more. The clears have been gratifying, but I really think people should do PF for learning these fights at the synced level.

Well that's the bullet a mentor bites when choose to become a mentor and run mentor roulette's. They or you are there not just for yourself in those as a mentor, you are there to help others so no they should not just stick to PF for learning them. Your/their job as a mentor in that roulette is to teach and to help. No offense intended but if your running mentor roulette's as a mentor but only for yourself and do not want to teach people how to do it then you should stop being a mentor. As for people not listening, such is life...will always be a few bad apples once in a while. As for the OP's suggestion, I agree that would be nice to have an additional non-mentor and by proxy non-learning/teaching version of EX trial roulette's on top of what we have at the moment.

[Eorzean_username]

Ironically, I talked with more players after posting this, and the previous "It's not so bad!" feedback began to be edged out by more and more "Huh? Oh god no, don't make me think about Mentor Roulette'ing into EX Trials".

However, I think part of the problem with the older EX Trials right now is that the player segment running them is starkly-divided:

Most players who know better (or are taught) don't even try to DF EX Trials, they run it Unsync / L60 / i230, and either never learn the intended mechanics, or just go numb and stop caring after the 20th consecutive hour of Pony Farm.

That leaves naïve and wide-eyed players that don't realize that when FFXIV says, "Use the Duty Finder to enter Ahk Afah Amphitheatre (Extreme)", it actually means "Please do not use the Duty Finder to queue for Ahk Afah Amphitheatre (Extreme), open Party Finder instead".

And then there's a handful of Mentors that get tossed into the latter group.

So it's hard for a general knowledge and understanding of mechanics to disperse into the population, because the players with that knowledge keep dwindling relative to the newly-joining players that never get to learn it.

Like what I mean is, take Titan HM for example:

Parties still wipe on this because, for example, someone baits a Landslide on top of the MT, or both Healers eat 5 Weights at the same time right after Heart phase.

But in general, Trial Roulette Titan HM clears after usually zero, sometimes 1, maybe 2 wipes because:

• i130+ Sync
• Echo
• It's part of Trial Roulette, so many players of all backgrounds and skill levels are regularly exposed to it

I think the 3rd point is the most important one. Because so many players are exposed to the battle regularly, even when you get totally-inexperienced players in the group, enough of a majority usually know the fight to carry things through.

For a Mentor getting dumped into an EX Trial, though, the chances are higher that it's the inverse of a Titan HM: inexperience will outnumber experience, and that's difficult to just brute-force or carry through.

But I've also seen feedback about many successful Mentor Roulette clears, parties that actually did listen and learn. So it's not totally hopeless, either.

Right now, it's so difficult to do these Trials at all (as a newer player, queue times were 2-3 hours or more until I learned how to use Party Finder). I think if more players were actually exposed to the content in its vaguely-natural form (if you can call it that, with i130+ and Echo), then after a period of time enough general familiarity would develop that runs would begin to succeed more often than not.

This is also where the Roulette aspect is important: By tempting experienced players to keep doing it with a suitable bribe, it increases the chance of getting a 'Carry Capable' group.

As a newer player, I have a lot of fun with this 'outdated' content — That's my motivation for requesting a Roulette for it. I'd enjoy having a legit way to do it without utterly annihilating it (i230 L60 Unsync), or queuing for 2-3+ hours and praying, or trying to convince PF players to voluntarily do it Synced.

[LunaFaye]

When I get the extreme trials for mentor roulette I cringe, and I've been getting them fairly often. Most of the time people are barely geared enough to get into the instance and they don't know the fight. I would say failure rate for the extremes I've gotten has been 50% or more. The clears have been gratifying, but I really think people should do PF for learning these fights at the synced level.

what do you call clearly under geared? Most of the X trials are the old ARR trials, meaning we did them while wearing old coil (t1-5) and/or myth gear, upgrading to soldiery gear was amazing even a mix and match out of i90 gear was better than the stupid tome stone gear. I could go on but the point is, everything you get is better than that. Don't matter if you're sync'd nowadays or not it's still better compared to the times this content was actual relevant. On top of that SE added lots and lots of echo to each of these trials as well as nerfed couple of mechanics or dmg in/output taken/shared etc. So yea clearly not a lack of gear that people can't beat the content.

[Eorzean_username]

(sorry for delayed response, trying to catch up on old posts)

Honestly, it doesn't even need to be yet another Roulette. It could be a Weekly Quest, or something new.

All I want is incentive to motivate players to voluntarily run older content, and especially, voluntarily do it Sync'd. Older content shouldn't necessarily replace or compete with current content, but I think a lot of L50 content (EX and Coil, etc) is well-designed and deserves a better fate than just either being obliterated Unsync'd, or avoided entirely.

Right now there's the Orchestrion rolls and Crafting materials, but these are niche motivations that require fishing for volunteers in Party Finder. Something a little more straightforward (like the CT Weekly Quest giving Relic Oil) would be appreciated.

[Vulcwen]

My experience from trying to run old ex primals synced is that putting it in PF doesn't work, and the only chance to even enter the place is to queue in DF and pray.
It's very simple, there is a chance that on the data center there are some people around that solo queue for an ex primal, and because you can't queue for unsync, it has to be a synced run that way. But putting it in the PF, you're stuck with the server you're on, and then you'd need people that specifically want to run it synced, rather than take the easy approach and go unsync.

Makes me think they just shouldn't drop ponies unsynced :P

[MeiUshu]

When I get the extreme trials for mentor roulette I cringe, and I've been getting them fairly often. Most of the time people are barely geared enough to get into the instance and they don't know the fight. I would say failure rate for the extremes I've gotten has been 50% or more. The clears have been gratifying, but I really think people should do PF for learning these fights at the synced level.

err excuse me but Mentor roulette is for new people and the Mentor there to help those new people. They are not barely geared for that dungeon tehy are geared appropriatedly for that dungeon, those new people doing the Mentor roulette do it to progress and be helped by someone with knowledge, overgeared obviously, to progrees. They are not in the wrong place at all, but maybe you shouldnt run the Mentor roulette ify ou expect people in there to know the fight when is not the purpose at all of that place.
You really dont deserve that crown in my opinion