Token exchange for the Primal Birds

[Jetstream_Fox]

I think this is a fine idea, but I really do not want it yet. only 99 runs means that a lot more people will get them which statistically means that it is a nerf, a nerf which should be saved for when the content begins to become irrelevant. In 2.55 SE made buffs to pony drop rates and on my server at least it revitalized the content because everyone was farming to get kirin, and I think that the token idea should be saved for at least 3.5 or even 3.55/4.0

Yes a nerf on mount drops that doesn't impact any gameplay. There was no reason for the drops to be so low in 2.0 and certainly not now in 3.0, the mounts aren't like the weapons which in some cases could be the best obtainable weapon at the time nor can we use the mounts as a companion. All the mounts are and will forever be is something that just stands out and say "Hey look at me my RNG was good today." We have a bad system, it needs to be reevaluated.

[Lambdafish]

only 99 runs

only 99 runs

Yes, only 99. Total. Ever. That isn't very many. Think about it this way, the gear is obsolete at this point and the only reason to run the content at all is for the mount, and if you get the mount (let's be hyperbolic and say they announce this and everyone grinds 99 runs in a week - thats ~14 runs per day) suddenly nobody is running the content anymore. The content is still classed as relevant content for the expansion, and once it's interest dwindles and we look towards the expansion, we will likely see this change.

Yes a nerf on mount drops that doesn't impact any gameplay. There was no reason for the drops to be so low in 2.0 and certainly not now in 3.0, the mounts aren't like the weapons which in some cases could be the best obtainable weapon at the time nor can we use the mounts as a companion. All the mounts are and will forever be is something that just stands out and say "Hey look at me my RNG was good today." We have a bad system, it needs to be reevaluated.

Let me start by clearing some air on this, whether it affects gameplay or not, you are not entitled to a RARE drop. Mounts are designed as an incentive to run the content regardless of how outdated the content is. RNG is a bad system, but it is the best system for extending the life span of content, because it keeps you running it potentially indefinitely. The alternative is gating, which you DEFINITELY do not want.

Final note: my original post said that I want this change, so I'm not disagreeing with it as a QoL change, only adding to it

[Jetstream_Fox]

Let me start by clearing some air on this, whether it affects gameplay or not, you are not entitled to a RARE drop. Mounts are designed as an incentive to run the content regardless of how outdated the content is. RNG is a bad system, but it is the best system for extending the life span of content, because it keeps you running it potentially indefinitely. The alternative is gating, which you DEFINITELY do not want.

Final note: my original post said that I want this change, so I'm not disagreeing with it as a QoL change, only adding to it

Let me give you a huge correction that seems many in this community don't get, you, me and any player is entitled to the option of obtaining gear, mounts and seasonal items this game has to offer if we're all putting in the work. The current RNG based system does exactly what you say you don't want, we already deal with RNG gates between relic weapons and even the kirin mount. It can stay a rare drop all it wants, but the devs need realize that excessive running of content isn't the proper way to revitalize content, it's a cheap gimmick that they put into place because they have no other solutions as to what to do at the current time.

[Lambdafish]

But the devs need realize that excessive running of content isn't the proper way to revitalize content, it's a cheap gimmick that they put into place because they have no other solutions as to what to do at the current time.

The problem with this is the same problem with weekly caps (and why they are there), which is that if people can get it done in one go, they will, and like I said, 99 runs is not much in the grand scheme of things (I haven't even been farming and I have 30-40 of some just lying around). I can see the devs improving the drop rate of the mount and then adding this, but I would expect (and hope) these changes coming in 3.45-3.55 at the earliest.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Let me give you a huge correction that seems many in this community don't get, you, me and any player is entitled to the option of obtaining gear, mounts and seasonal items this game has to offer if we're all putting in the work. The current RNG based system does exactly what you say you don't want, we already deal with RNG gates between relic weapons and even the kirin mount. It can stay a rare drop all it wants, but the devs need realize that excessive running of content isn't the proper way to revitalize content, it's a cheap gimmick that they put into place because they have no other solutions as to what to do at the current time.

That doesn't make you entitled to it. Primal pigeons, like their pony brethren, are meant to be bonus rewards, which differs from gear needed to actually complete content. You don't need them for anything except vanity. I'm not saying that's at all a bad reason though. What your asking for will inevitably diminish old trials. People who want these pigeons will farm Thordan, Ravana and Bismarck 99 times and never queue again unless they're doing roulettes. As frustrating as RNG can be, it guarantees people will keep doing content. The devs don't intend for you to grind Thordan EX 20-50+ times a day. They want you to pace yourself throughout the entire two year patch cycle so new players will always have people queuing. That's the real reason these mounts exist.

[Jetstream_Fox]

snip

So if you go to work for 40 hours or whatever are you not entitled to a paycheck? If you're putting in the work to run the content you should be able to obtain the reward regardless, that's the whole point of running it. You can't say "oh if they gave people tokens for it they'd get that number and quit running" so what about a player running first time and getting the drop, and that player never ques again? And no RNG doesn't guarantee anyone will continue to do content, many people in this post have stated they won't do it because of the low RNG. Adding tokens don't diminish anything so I don't know where you get that from, the weapons already require tokens and people still seek them out for glamour purposes. If a higher RNG would weaken old trials then why are old trials still popping up for pony and weapon farms?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So if you go to work for 40 hours or whatever are you not entitled to a paycheck? If you're putting in the work to run the content you should be able to obtain the reward regardless, that's the whole point of running it. You can't say "oh if they gave people tokens for it they'd get that number and quit running" so what about a player running first time and getting the drop, and that player never ques again? And no RNG doesn't guarantee anyone will continue to do content, many people in this post have stated they won't do it because of the low RNG. Adding tokens don't diminish anything so I don't know where you get that from, the weapons already require tokens and people still seek them out for glamour purposes. If a higher RNG would weaken old trials then why are old trials still popping up for pony and weapon farms?

Work =/= Bonus reward

You do. The reward is better gear. Primal pigeons exist solely for incentive to repeatedly running that content beyond its relevance so new players won't experience long queue times. Unlike that potential gear upgrade, you don't need this vanity item. It's the equivalent of a lottery ticket or gambling Vegas. You aren't entitled to win just because you paid money.

What of it? For every lucky player who got a pigeon early another is still queuing up Thordan EX for the umpteenth time. People posting on a forum not even three pages doesn't equate to the fanbase a large. In fact, forum posts in general make up a very small fragment of any fanbase. Regardless, queue for Heavensward primal continue to be fairly quick while ARR primals seem to queue only at certain times now. And they pop because of RNG. Those players don't have their ponies and have no means of getting them buy farming Titan or Garuda however many times it takes. I don't have any, which means unless I find a group, I'll be using the DF until I do.

If you aren't willing to chance these low odds, well, you can simply wait until 3.55 or thereabouts when they up rates in the wake of a new expansion launching. So there's your nerf.

[Cidel]

Primal pigeons exist solely for incentive repeatedly running that content beyond its relevance so new players won't experience long queue times.

Ok, this train of logic needs to stop.

Realistically, people "farm" these mounts in farm parties. That means most people run it in PF parties that value speed of killing the primal over carrying new players and waiting in a queue for a party that might not even be able to kill the primal in the first place. The way people go about trying to get these mounts mostly doesn't even support "clearing it for new players" when most Party Finder mount farm parties only want experienced people who can kill it in their sleep. Yes, there's players out there who, through some act of RNGesus, managed to score the mount in there, but players who acquire the mount that way are most likely a tiny minority (and incredibly lucky).

If the devs are concerned about DF queue times for players needing these primals and are trying to draw people in with these pigeons, they're best off making them drop with noticeably higher frequency for non-full parties using the DF, otherwise people serious about farming them will simply look for 7 other non-new players.

[Jetstream_Fox]

snip

You missed my point entirely, if you're getting a group together or going solo, logging hours, killing the boss, over and over and over again, you're putting in work and effort, to get the reward, just like you wake up everyday and go to work to get a paycheck. If you don't get that reward you'll eventually quit the content, just like if your job didn't give you a paycheck you'd quit said job.

I never once stated you should get handed the item on the first drop so I don't know where you get this whole "you're not entitled to win because you pay" thing at. I'm pretty sure I been saying everyone should have the ability to obtain all gear in the game, which is the whole point of playing it the game.

This thing about que times? That has nothing to do with drops, that has to do with what is relevant at the time, as I stated earlier content is going die, less people are using DF to get into Titan verse Bismarck, why? Not because the reward, because Titan is old content that 98% of the community has likely farmed out and cleared and Bismarck isn't. The samething will happen to all 3.0 content when 4.0 drops.

[TheGrimace]

Yes, only 99. Total. Ever. That isn't very many.

Look, no. You're wrong and that's a crazy way to look at it.

There's "rare" and then there's "unreasonable."