The cast time on Stoneskin II

[Rongway]

Casting Stoneskin II is demonstrably less valuable than 5 seconds of time.

Assume your healer buddy helps you Stoneskin 1 everybody.
Assume that there will be no overlaps in whom you each target.
Assume you aren't going to blow any cooldowns for speed.
You're still looking at 7.5 to 10 seconds.

Double that if you're solo healing.

Stoneskin II as it is is already enough QoL.

[Tint]

back before we got stoneskin 2 it took the whm 8 x 3 seconds to cast stoneskin on everyone. that's 24 seconds. plus another 2,5 seconds because the whm was not even the only class with the 18% stoneskin but also the only one with proshell. 26,5 seconds to buff the party. and then waiting another few seconds so the whm could regenerate the mana before the pull...

stoneskin 2 was a huuuge improvement.

[Destous]

back before we got stoneskin 2 it took the whm 8 x 3 seconds to cast stoneskin on everyone. that's 24 seconds. plus another 2,5 seconds because the whm was not even the only class with the 18% stoneskin but also the only one with proshell. 26,5 seconds to buff the party. and then waiting another few seconds so the whm could regenerate the mana before the pull...

stoneskin 2 was a huuuge improvement.

So, 2 steps forward and one step back?

There's no reason for it to have a cast time. "It used to be so much worse" doesn't change that.

[AngelicSence]

It has 5 sec CD because it's an AoE (stronger, upgraded) version of stoneskin 1 which you can apply on every member at once, making it more efficient than selecting player 1 by 1 with SS1. The only reason why it's 5 instead of 1 or 0 would be due to design. You are essentially a caster, every upgraded version of spell requires more mana and time to cast it. We.. as players might get confused with this, but it's because we have different perspective. We don't think about design or lore.. We just want quick and fast.

[Cyrocco]

Just use Swiftcast. If people die they die.

[Destous]

every upgraded version of spell requires more mana and time to cast it. We.. as players might get confused with this, but it's because we have different perspective. We don't think about design or lore.. We just want quick and fast.

It would be fine if the spell could be cast in combat. The paradigm of "more spell requires more MP/cast time" is irrelevant outside of combat, and it really does just require extra time for the sake of requiring extra time. It doesn't make pragmatic sense.

While it's nice to become immersed in a game world, cast times for the sake of cast times rather than for the sake of balance just hampers people down IRL. It's the same case to be made for resetting longer CDs after a wipe instead of having 8 people sit idly for 3+ minutes while everyone's CDs finish; or in most cases, finish enough that they're up in time to be used at the right point during an encounter. It's just unnecessary.

[JackFross]

I'll just reiterate that there is literally no circumstance in the entire game where the following two situations overlap:

1. Stoneskin II is visibly useful for the encounter.

2. You have fewer than 30s between standing facing the boss and pulling said boss.

So like. I just don't understand the complaints. My static WHM hard-casts Stoneskin II before every pull. We have a 20s countdown (as any group with a NIN should, at minimum), and that only goes out after the ready check completes... which is only hit once we're all buffed anyway. And my raid leader gets upset with people wasting time between pulls, so this is a rather quick turnaround. :0

The only time it's an issue is when the Tank decides to Leroy Jenkins the encounter - in which case you should have just used Sprint to get there before the tank and cast it while all the TP-using Jobs show up. The other good tip is to cast it before Protect. Everyone will wait for Protect. Stoneskin? Not so much.


Either way, still whining about a QoL upgrade not being perfect enough. #firstworldproblems

[Destous]

snip

So don't be pragmatic because it's not necessary in endgame progression? That's ridiculous. There's plenty of situations where an instant Stoneskin II would be welcomed and appreciated by the other 99% of WHMs; hence why they often burn Swiftcast to avoid the 5s cast time.

Most notably when waiting for everyone to zone into the encounter, or when waiting for everyone to get into range. Why isn't it common practice to put up Stoneskin II before every 4man boss? It's because the cast time is too long to feel worth the trouble of having Stoneskin on every party member for easier content.

It's not a very good QoL feature if it doesn't competently improve QoL ingame.

[JackFross]

The only complaints that were made to cause the addition of SSII were levied by raiders, because it took too long to SS out the whole party. The reason SS2 isn't used before every 4-man boss has nothing to do with cast time and has to do with the fact that it's just not very useful. Nobody will need that extra buffer for damage except before certain boss encounters - the ones everyone stops and mills around at for a while before pulling anyway.

And, the other point of contention - in 4-man content, there's even LESS use for Swiftcast than in 8-man content, so to complain about burning an otherwise useless resource on the one thing that you deem useful is ludicrous, imho.

And if you're standing there waiting for everyone to show up, stop being bad, essentially? When I play WHM, I'll start casting SS2 when the last straggler is about to show up - I sprint ahead to be sure I get there before the melee/tanks and then start casting when I land. The buff is always up with plenty of time to spare.


I guess where I'm failing to understand these arguments is in their conception.

All I see is people complaining that their QoL skill that didn't even exist in the past takes too much time to cast. It's a bit more than twice the time of a normal SS cast (6s v 2.5s at base sks) - by which I mean ~2.4x as long to cast. And I'll stand by the most important statement here ----- IT ISN'T EVEN NECESSARY. Like you're literally standing here saying "My QoL Isn't Good Enough."

It's the same claim I make when I facetiously whine about the fact that there's a bit of a delay between Elusive Jump and my first GCD that I wish wasn't there. I don't go out and whine that it should be fixed - I accept that Elusive Jump cuts down on the amount of time it takes me to get back to the boss considerably... and that time is NOT outweighed by the delay before I get to attack again.

[Gijumaru]

Using SS and SSII is useful in that it absorbs some of the damage players takes, and saves mana. this will also allow a whm to dps more at the start of a fight.

Using consumables (such as food and potions) does not have a strong effect on a players output in and of itself, but when combined with skills, cooldowns, ect. it helps out a bit and every little bit helps.

Players should use all the tools at their disposal. They are there for a reason.