we need a sword dps

[Urthdigger]

There already is a sword-ish DPS. Rogue. Sure, they're rather short swords, but still, sharp bladed thingies!

Seriously though, I'd like to ask... do we REALLY need yet another DPS?

[Laerune]

There already is a sword-ish DPS. Rogue. Sure, they're rather short swords, but still, sharp bladed thingies!

Seriously though, I'd like to ask... do we REALLY need yet another DPS?

Allrounder here, so I dont mind whichever role we are going to get. But if SE were to only add 1 class, which role do you think this class will have? SE has shown so far that they will cater to the majority. We know that DPS players outnumber the Tank and Healer by alot. I doubt SE would release one class for the tanks or healer. Knowing SE they want make sure that majority of the playerbase plays their new class, otherwise it would be a waste of resources and time.

On the tank forum there used to be a thread about how effective the Dark Knight was in converting DPS and Healers to play a Tank. The reponds show that majority of the Dark Knight who play the class as their main, were already maining a Paladin or Warrior. A small group converted into a Tank, but the rest leveled the class and benched it.

So to answer your question with a another question, do we need really a new Tank or a Healer class aswell?

[Katana190]

So to answer your question with a another question, do we need really a new Tank or a Healer class aswell?

Yes... having 3 tanks and 3 healers is quite... rubbish, I can deal with it til 4.0. Just look at the current meta, every group I've seen runs a WAR and SCH. Now look at the DPS side, its quite flexible.. sure there's a meta with the likes of MCH and NIN, but I've seen many groups run without these 2 jobs as well. I can't speak for Tanks and Healers, I haven't seen a single group without those 2 jobs, I'm sure there out there, but very few I can tell you. Creating 4 tanks and 4 healers MIGHT break needing these 2 essential jobs.

I can see where your coming from though, they'll always be more DPS then tanks and healers and people using the argument saying "Do we need any more DPS?" is quite silly, there are 4 DPS in raid groups, and more DPS players overall. Its much easier to balance DPS then Tanks and Healers. But I can't take your quote seriously UNTIL 4.0 where we have 4 tanks and healers. Sorry to go off topic here.

On Topic: I personally would like to see SAM Tank and RDM DPS using a Sword or Rapier of the likes, would satisfy both sides. Just my opinion though.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Yes... having 3 tanks and 3 healers is quite... rubbish, I can deal with it til 4.0. Just look at the current meta, every group I've seen runs a WAR and SCH. Now look at the DPS side, its quite flexible.. sure there's a meta with the likes of MCH and NIN, but I've seen many groups run without these 2 jobs as well. I can't speak for Tanks and Healers, I haven't seen a single group without those 2 jobs, I'm sure there out there, but very few I can tell you. Creating 4 tanks and 4 healers MIGHT break needing these 2 essential jobs.

Not really. The main reason Warrior is essential is because of the Storm's Path/Storm's Eye debuffs. These allow Warrior + Dark Knight and Warrior + Paladin to be more optimal with any combination of healer and dps than Dark Knight + Paladin.
A 4th tank might make the current situation worse or end up leaving the current situation mostly unchanged. Warrior + Dark Knight/Paladin/New Tank being optimal is not a situation I want to see and Warrior/New Tank + Dark Knight/Paladin is hardly better than the current situation.

The healer problem is more because of how underpowered Noct stance shields are for PvE content in comparison to Scholar shields. White Mage + Astro(Noct) is just not as good as White Mage + Scholar or Astro(Diurnal) + Scholar even though it is still viable.

On Topic: I personally would like to see SAM Tank and RDM DPS using a Sword or Rapier of the likes, would satisfy both sides. Just my opinion though.

I'd rather see Samurai be a Katana wielding Maiming gear wearing slashing DpS with its main combo applying a version of Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge with one of its secondary combos applying a version of Storm's Path. This should solve the "Must have a Warrior" problem.

I'd like Red Mage to be a Rapier and Buckler wielding Scouting gear wearing melee piercing/magic support DpS.

[Katana190]

Not really. The main reason Warrior is essential is because of the Storm's Path/Storm's Eye debuffs. These allow Warrior + Dark Knight and Warrior + Paladin to be more optimal with any combination of healer and dps than Dark Knight + Paladin.
A 4th tank might make the current situation worse or end up leaving the current situation mostly unchanged. Warrior + Dark Knight/Paladin/New Tank being optimal is not a situation I want to see and Warrior/New Tank + Dark Knight/Paladin is hardly better than the current situation.

On the DPS side... they've done a fantastic job. Why doubt them on Tank and Healers? Hell, if you want to argue about the most optimal composition for DPS raiding its actually 2 Mch's, 1 Nin, 1 Drg. But we don't see that, like at all.

The healer problem is more because of how underpowered Noct stance shields are for PvE content in comparison to Scholar shields. White Mage + Astro(Noct) is just not as good as White Mage + Scholar or Astro(Diurnal) + Scholar even though it is still viable.

This isn't the only reason SCH is so viable.. the noct AST shields are actually stronger then SCH shields if not crited. Its all the utilty it brings, being able to spread a single target shield onto the whole party + burst heals + pet healer + highly sustained DPS while keeping HPS up. Its the same for WAR. WAR isn't only viable for its 2 debuffs or DPS, its actually very close to DRK DPS. What WAR does great is its self sustain on top of all its utility, having one of the most on demand mitigation skills in the game on top of its ability synergy.

I'd rather see Samurai be a Katana wielding Maiming gear wearing slashing DpS with its main combo applying a version of Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge with one of its secondary combos applying a version of Storm's Path. This should solve the "Must have a Warrior" problem.

I'd like Red Mage to be a Rapier and Buckler wielding Scouting gear wearing melee piercing/magic support DpS.

Your literally describing WAR as a DPS. Also 2 DPS? This is shooting the tank population in the foot.

Depends, are you fine with ALL the queues being just as bad as PVP queues. Because that;s what gonna happen if they release just DPS classes.

I'm glad someone cares. As much as people say not many people switched from DPS to DRK, it did do something for at least the first few weeks and peaked some peoples interest in changing roles and sticking to it, we can't just shove that point away.

[Ultimatecalibur]

On the DPS side... they've done a fantastic job. Why doubt them on Tank and Healers? Hell, if you want to argue about the most optimal composition for DPS raiding its actually 2 Mch's, 1 Nin, 1 Drg. But we don't see that, like at all.

Due to how each DpS class synergizes with the other DpS classes there are multiple viable dps raid party compositions, pretty much every dps job is in multiple of them and no one job is in all of them. One of the problems that tanks have is that only Warrior is viable in each and every tank composition it is in. Warrior + Dark Knight is optimal, Warrior + Paladin is viable, Dark Knight + Paladin is not viable because of lack of the Slash resist debuff from Storm's Eye or Dancing Edge. Sure you could have a Ninja be one of the dps in a Dark Knight + Paladin comp, but Warrior + Dark Knight/Paladin + Ninja is more optimal.

So unless there is a way for the Dark Knight/Paladin comp to get the Slashing debuff without the whole comp being more optimal by replacing either tank with a Warrior, adding a 4th tank will not fix the problems that give Warrior a guaranteed raid slot.

This isn't the only reason SCH is so viable.. the noct AST shields are actually stronger then SCH shields if not crited. Its all the utilty it brings, being able to spread a single target shield onto the whole party + burst heals + pet healer + highly sustained DPS while keeping HPS up.

Deployment Tactics is what makes Scholar shields stronger than Noct shields. A Noct Astro can't completely nullify most of the raid wide damage in the first 20 seconds of the fight by throwing out a 390 to 1296 potency shield at the start of the fight. The rest of the two jobs kits are pretty comparable with the scholar's dps being roughly equal to the party dps increase from the Astro's cards.

Its the same for WAR. WAR isn't only viable for its 2 debuffs or DPS, its actually very close to DRK DPS. What WAR does great is its self sustain on top of all its utility, having one of the most on demand mitigation skills in the game on top of its ability synergy.

If the Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge debuff is not factored in Warrior Dark Knight and Paladin dps are pretty close together now. The Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge debuff increases all three tanks damage by about 10%

Your literally describing WAR as a DPS. Also 2 DPS? This is shooting the tank population in the foot.

Applying the same debuffs does not make to jobs the same. If the Samurai used combos to generate stacks and then used those stacks to perform special attack they would be similar.

Also I never said that they should only release SAM and RDM together or released without any other classes (one of which could be a tank) I only said I'd rather see the Samurai as a DpS that would be more viable in non-Warrior comps and added that I'd like Red Mages to use bucklers.

[Morningstar1337]

Also I never said that they should only release SAM and RDM together or released without any other classes (one of which could be a tank) I only said I'd rather see the Samurai as a DpS that would be more viable in non-Warrior comps and added that I'd like Red Mages to use bucklers.

That's impatience for you, you assume that two classes are set to be released ASAP and then work off of that assumption. And then you find out that people don't factor in the assumption and well...you know what they say about assumptions right?

As fir a DPS that is more Viable in Non WAR comps. I can barely fathom the amount of Hoops that will take. Though having a Tank with Piercing/Magic/Blunt damage would be a start/

RDM? So long as they have access to Black and White Magic (and one each of the Elemental spells), then i don't care what weapon they use (Though I like rapiers, I'm unsure how well they would work with bucklers and that combination would probably make them PLD lite)

[jomoru]

So to answer your question with a another question, do we need really a new Tank or a Healer class aswell?

Tanks have the right to novelty too.

[Shippuu]

Allrounder here, so I dont mind whichever role we are going to get. But if SE were to only add 1 class, which role do you think this class will have? SE has shown so far that they will cater to the majority. We know that DPS players outnumber the Tank and Healer by alot. I doubt SE would release one class for the tanks or healer. Knowing SE they want make sure that majority of the playerbase plays their new class, otherwise it would be a waste ?

Do we really need another melee dps though? If you're looking at numbers and saying dps outnumber tanks you're counting all dps against them. But if you narrow it down to the population of players who play melee dps their numbers aren't anything special compared to tank players. If you look at official census data, tanks comprised 21% of job breakdown while melee dps comprised of 22%.