The cast time on Stoneskin II

[MagiusNecros]

There is already natural prevention from using raise. MP costs. PLD's isn't especially high and Healers have to manage their own.

Furthermore you don't add items just to add items because of brand name. Especially when it can't even perform it's traditional function. If you limit the item to only one in inventory that means each player could possibly bring extra utility once per instance by blowing their item CD on a revive. Which would be much more useful then having useless items. And in every other FF game you brought PD's to prevent yourself from getting a Game Over screen AKA a wipe on an encounter. Plus if it actually did have use it would actually be worth something on the Marketboard instead of 1 gil.

While 6 seconds might be nothing wasting a swiftcast on SS2 is 60 seconds without Swiftcast so it's really a matter of a player's priorities.

[JackFross]

You're arguing against the same people who are dragging their feet in resetting cooldowns on wipe because the system could be abused.

I think it's safe to say that the sort of valid logic you bring to the table isn't something they care to consider. However, comparing XIV to XI is a horrible mistake you should not be making. There is no Job in this game - no situation AT ALL where a player benefits in a significant way by bringing items into encounters outside of food and potions - and even those are marginal gains at best.

The game is clearly designed in such a way so as to keep resurrection out of the greater population's hand in encounters. It's designed to be a part of the (otherwise non-existant) utility that a Summoner brings to a raid group. Every DPS Job brings utility - that's what SMN's got. Giving it to PLD, who's also bringing mitigation kits on par with the other tanks and - as of recently - a DPS kit that matches up nicely with the other two tanks... Suddenly, the best tank is an obvious choice. The argument of "BUT MANA" is a completely meaningless one since PLD literally never under any circumstances in a raid environment spends its Mana on anything at all for any reason whatsoever. It has enough Mana for a Raise, and that's all that matters.

These are the steps you need to take when considering how best to balance your game. Certain things can break that balance - such as revives being spread around the party or such - and you need to clamp down on them and control them as best you can to maintain the balance you strive for.

On top of all of this, you're missing the BIGGER issue with allowing players to use Phoenix Downs in combat.

If everyone can only hold 1 on their character at a time (which is how it works currently) and you can use it anytime... it would still be completely worthless to progression raiding. You'd have 8 free raises per hour-and-a-half of progression. That saves you almost literally 0 time progression-wise (which is the only place extra raises are even a little useful) because 9/10 times when someone dies, one healer will have Swiftcast ready, which completely negates the usefulness of the Phoenix Down. And, the times you'd wanna use it (such as healer death) are already damn near wipe scenarios anyway.

(I already hear you saying "what about when the healer dies against a boss in a dungeon?" - Odds are good that the healer is shit anyway and will just die again later. You can still save only 1 wipe per run by wasting an actually valuable resource on a healer res.)

And it's still just one use and then it's gone for the rest of the lockout, at best. If you leave everytime someone uses one to get more, you're slowing progression down by a substantial margin for no serious gains. If everyone is restocking their Phoenix Down between lockouts, you're significantly slowing progression for no reason other than "I want more of this borderline useless resource."


So, shrug. I don't think any of it is an issue, and I still straight up deny anyone the not-reasonable-at-all argument that the cast time on Stoneskin II is somehow "too long" or whatever nonsense you wanna say. It doesn't meaningfully slow down pulls. It doesn't meaningfully slow down buff application. It does literally nothing to you other than make you whine about having to cast a spell. Patience is a virtue. Try and slow down once in a while. You'll be a lot happier.

[zuzu-bq]

The devs themselves said they think people can abuse of a cooldown reset. They had the same tought about no cd restriction on changing jobs at safe areas. As for PLD mana, a good PLD can Clemency and use that to raise healer dps or save healer mana on a raid scenario. But these are other topics as their own, I think we're running away from our main topic here. Even though we don't have much more to say.

[winsock]

Lol this thread.

Concerning SS2, it's really not a big deal. Since you can only SS2 out of combat and it takes a group time to organize/pull, you're waiting less than a min on swiftcast. What is so important during that initial min that makes such a big difference? It's a small DPS increase. If you need to res less than a min into combat, lol. You've also got instant single target and AoE healing if need be.

I wanted to make an additional comment about brezing. Locking brez to squishies helps ensure squishy classes aren't at a significant disadvantage solely from picking a squishy class. If your group is slacking or ignoring mechanics that gets squishies killed, the group itself loses the ability to recover. Locking brez to squishies helps ensure every class has an opportunity to survive mechanics.

[MagiusNecros]

Words

All I'm getting out of this is that you only think Stat boosts from food and 15 sec main attack stat potions with 4 minute long cooldowns are worth anything. Which is sad. Plus regardless if swift raise is faster then an item you don't factor that the revive would cost 0 MP. And could be used in a situation where Healers are both low on MP and really can't afford to raise someone up. Or in a situation all party members with a raise spell don't have swiftcast up. And offers everyone a one shot raise if it's needed.

It's like you hate having options.

But if you wish to discuss why making Phoenix Downs useful is a bad idea then by all means make a topic explaining why in raid progression it's more time efficient to just wipe the party if you make a mistake instead of using limited resources per run.

But this topic is about SS2 and if you feel blowing Swift on it is alright then great or if you feel that everyone can wait 6 seconds that's great too. But clearly by others in this topic they all do not feel the same way.

[JackFross]

All I'm getting out of this is that you only think Stat boosts from food and 15 sec main attack stat potions with 4 minute long cooldowns are worth anything. Which is sad.

There is no Job in this game - no situation AT ALL where a player benefits in a significant way by bringing items into encounters outside of food and potions - and even those are marginal gains at best.

Food's main benefit is the health boost. That's why people use food in progression. The marginal gain to offensive power is negligible, as I said.


But, either way. I don't think Stoneskin has a terribly massive benefit to the party in any scenario, even when used pre-pull. Casting SS2 (with or without swiftcast) is always still optional and, as a tank, I'm likely to just run off while you cast it in a dungeon run, because it's worthless and an unnecessary waste of time and resources that should be spent on DPS (Aero III, primarily) rather than worthless defense that won't even be noticeable in a dungeon scenario.

So like, real talk. Maybe SS2 should have a lesser cast time if it were actually necessary or important to use. But, seeing as it's optional, it's up to you whether you feel you wanna stand and cast it during the 30+s that the party is standing around before pulling or if you wanna just wait with the others.

[Highwilds]

I swiftcast + stoneskin II at the start of 8-player dungeons/trials. Occasionally while still running. I don't even bother with it anymore in basic dungeons. Swiftcast will be up already when I need it the next time and that's most likely combined with raise or divine seal + medica (when s*** hits the fan).

[LeeraSorlan]

back before stoneskin 2 was even a thing, it took upwards of 15 seconds to cast stoneskin on every player. Now, we have stoneskin two an it taks a measly 5 seconds of everyones life.

its like complaining that you are starving, and someone gives you food, but because its not high class lobster, you dont want it.

[Aurelinaus]

There are some instances and raids during certain transitions when there is nothing momentarily on the enemy list where you can cast SSII mid-fight with swiftcast. I'm guessing part of the reason of a 5s cast time is to cover those gaps

[JackFross]

There are some instances and raids during certain transitions when there is nothing momentarily on the enemy list where you can cast SSII mid-fight with swiftcast. I'm guessing part of the reason of a 5s cast time is to cover those gaps

This is never the case in any relevant content. The only situation you might be discussing is A6 Normal mode, where each battle is a discrete instance of combat, with non-combat phases between. Every other instance in the game - bar none* - is a straight combat scenario from the moment you engage the boss monster until the moment you defeat the boss monster. SSII's cast condition isn't "no enemies targetable" it is "not in combat."

*Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm tired and may be forgetting one.