Tank/Paladin tips, What would you like to see?

[Adachi452]

Okay ill keep that in mind for when i hit level 60, thanks!

Only use RoH if you absolutely need it. Just curious as to when that might be and how you would use it in an example?

[Sarcatica]

Okay ill keep that in mind for when i hit level 60, thanks!

Only use RoH if you absolutely need it. Just curious as to when that might be and how you would use it in an example?

The easy way is to pull with RoH combo and observe the aggro meter. If dps is weak, you can afford to do more DPS with GB combo back to back. Also consider getting used to tanking in Sword Oath for boss fights. Most of them are pretty easy to pull off. If you are going to raid as any tank, tanking in DPS stance is a good asset to have. That will require you to constantly think about using CDs more effeciently and knowing how much you can chew.

[Adachi452]

Ah gotcha, any tips or tricks on using CD's effectively? What do u try and do/keep in mind?

[JackFross]

Few questions though

1-25 the optimal rotation for damage is Fast Blade > Riot Blade > repeat - use it when you won't lose hate.
26-53 the optimal rotation for damage is Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone > repeat
54-59 the optimal rotation for damage is Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > repeat - use it when you won't lose hate.
At 60 the optimal rotation for damage is FB>RB>GB>FB>SB>Royal Authority>FB>SB>RA> repeat - replace 1 RA with 1 RoH if needed for hate.

At any level, the following skills should be used on cooldown if you have them:
Fight or Flight (delayed in the GCD before the third hit of a combo to maximize effectiveness)
Circle of Scorn
Spirits Within
Shield Swipe

Spirits Within is a special case, though, since it's a Silence, as well, and there are some rare situations where the Silence effect is beneficial compared to its damage output. In Savage raiding, there's a boss that requires Silences - a Paladin can hit every one of them with Spirits Within and thereby allow all the DPS to use their Silence skills as they come up for maximum damage. There's also mobs in level 60 dungeons which use attacks which can be Silenced, rather than Stunned. If you Silence an AoE (or Pacify a physical AoE) you can just keep standing there without ever interrupting the flow of your combos. Plus you get to feel like a boss. Win/win/win situation.

I admit i dont understand some of the things u mentioned (maybe bcc i havnt done them) like "T2. Please stop being dumb."

not sure about these points, i understand pulling bosses south (meaning towards the characters right?) instead of pulling him north and making his back face my team? is that what u mean? Could u explain the other points in more detail maybe so i fully understand pls?

Everything I listed there is specific to level 60 content. Boss names and such from current raid bosses where people tank them like idiots and it makes me mad. To expand on it:

Brawler and Swindler have a Magical auto-attack and a Magical buster and don't do any physical damage, yet I see PLDs pop Sheltron pre-pull when running up. You can't block magic damage.

Brawler uses a "Single Buster" attack which does more damage to the tank based on how long they've been tanking him. If you have 5+ stacks of it, it's essentially a one-shot. You usually swap around 2 or 3 (2 is safest and correct, people do 3 because they can and are dumb). You CAN solo-tank the boss, but DPS needs to be on point - and it never is in DF.

Many tanks will grab a boss and drag it north as soon as the fight begins out of some sort of falsely-held belief that it is the correct way to tank. 10 times out of 10 it is incorrect to immediately drag a boss directly north at the start of an encounter. It is always beneficial to hold it where it is at the start (cheated a bit south by the opening Tomahawk/Shield Lob/Unmend) before pulling it - slowly - to the proper position. Dragging it too quickly will cause your BLM and SMN and BRD and MCH to drop DPS as the boss gets dragged out of their range and will cause your DRG/MNK/NIN to all have to chase the boss across the entire field before they can even begin their attacks. Bad form. Don't do it.

I've also encountered tanks who will pull the boss correctly (in Shield Lob > let boss get to them before next GCD spin > attack again/hold steady) only they decide it's best to then just keep the boss facing South - aka where the party starts the fight. This forces everyone to then adjust to you. DRG/MNK/NIN all benefit from being able to access the flank and rear of the opponent for their various attacks, so holding him facing your damage dealers on the pull is slowing down their start and adding a significant amount of time on to the encounter.

The reference to A1N and A1S is because it's a fight where an inordinate amount of people think it's optimal (IT IS NOT. IT IS 100% NOT OPTIMAL ALWAYS.) to pull the boss all the way south at the start. It's dumb, delays damage output from the DPS, and does quite literally nothing of worth for easing the battle later on. There's a point where a second one spawns which will tether to the other guy and give them both damage stacks, effectively causing a wipe. This spawn has a MASSIVE tell to it. It's really easy to just pull the boss south when the tell starts and suddenly everything is fine and the DPS aren't pissed off. Technically, the optimal thing is to have the MT hold it steady and then when the tell starts, the OT provokes that one and drags it south, letting the MT grab the new one that spawns. But that's neither here nor there.

And when your talking "Tank mechanics" could u explain what the mechanics are just to be safe? When u say that im thinking...where im standing...how im making the boss stand in relation to my team, dodging bosses AOE...like things a tank needs to keep in mind, is that what your saying?

Tank mechanics are things such as:
1. The boss is using a large-damage-attack that targets the tank.
>> The tank should utilize mitigation skills to nullify the damage.
2. The boss needs to be moved so that the players can continue to attack it optimally without being killed.
>> The tank should move the boss to that position, taking care to keep its hitbox out of any hazards on the ground. There are times at 60 where large AoEs form and some tanks will drag the boss just enough that they'll be safe, but the boss is standing in poison... with melee dps standing there trying to figure out what they should do. This is bad - don't do it.
3. The boss is using an attack that splits damage over targets hit either party-wide or just two targets.
>> The tanks need to be aware of these attacks and adjust accordingly. Shiva Extreme has a party-soak attack. Brawler in endgame content has a party-soak attack. Brute Justice in endgame content has a two-tank soak attack. Kaliya from the coils of Bahamut also has a two-tank soak attack, as well as Hydra from the relic quest.

Ah gotcha, any tips or tricks on using CD's effectively? What do u try and do/keep in mind?

As far as this is concerned, it requires some knowledge of the fight to use them super effectively.
1. When you know the healers will need to focus on AoE healing, you might want a cooldown to make their lives easier when they return to you.
2. When a large-damage-attack is incoming. These usually have cast bars, though lately a lot of them don't.
3. When you're holding more than one enemy for some reason, it's generally a good idea to use one.

[Sarcatica]

Ah gotcha, any tips or tricks on using CD's effectively? What do u try and do/keep in mind?

It's more like if I use it now, will I have it back for another tank buster? If yes, good. If not, what are the other alternatives to use? Most tank busters can be done with 1 good defensive CD (a few requires you to stack a lot more), Rampart/Sentinel being your butter and bread for PLD, while Hallowed Ground is heavily dependent on the content you are running (mostly cheesing). Stuff like Conva/Foresight should be paired with other small CDs if you don't know how much you can chew yet. Sheltron/Bulwark (Bulwark is a poor man's Intuition Raw, feelsbadman) pretty much for heavy physical attacks (tank busters/auto alike), also normally used to get easy procs of Shield Swipes for more DPS. Awareness is situational for whatever bosses. There are some bosses that do crit a lot more.

Recognizing which tank buster is magical or physical is great for a starter. Some tank busters may look like they are physical, but they are magical, vice versa.

[Destous]

I'd like to see Bulwark remove the CD or massively reduce the CD on Shield Swipe.
I'd like to see Sheltron reset the CD on Shield Swipe.
I'd like to see Clemency lose it's cast time, even if it means a numbers nerf.
I'd like to see RA turned into a 3 mob cleave, with normal potency on the main target and 50% damage on up to two additional targets.
I'd like to see Flash oGCD with a 10s CD; or given a potency value that scales with attack power.

[Erim-Nelhah]

Until you hit 60 in boss fights use RoH when GB is ticking. Things changes at 60 with Royal Authority

Re-clipping GB is better than spamming RoH. 240pot initial + 50pot every tick vs. 260pot. Only use RoH if you absolutely need it.

Actually, if you look at the entire combo for each of those abilities, GB is +10 potency before any DoT ticks (+30 from RB, then -20 from GB). Just something to realize.

(A1 stuff)...Technically, the optimal thing is to have the MT hold it steady and then when the tell starts, the OT provokes that one and drags it south, letting the MT grab the new one that spawns. But that's neither here nor there.

Just one thing to note: Yes, this is the best/safest way to do it, but if you're the OT, wait until the red "scanner" circles stop spinning around the boss to provoke it. If you provoke too soon, you'll end up with full enmity on both the boss and its clone. Also, if you want to do it this way in A1N on DF, tell the other tank - it's not the standard way of doing it in DF, at least for A1N. The reason it's safer is because mis-timing the provoke on the clone can lead to a wipe (it's possible to target and provoke the clone before it loses its invulnerability).

--Erim Nelhah