Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Cnidarian]

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Keep in mind also that you are talking about DF, not every tank in DF will try to maximize their damage. There are quite a bit that are happy just spamming their threat combo repeatedly without a care about how low their damage is. This plays into what Miste was trying to point out that some players would rather take the small potency loss that will ensure the slashing debuff is up at all times instead of relying on a DF tank to maintain it. When I do a dungeon as NIN and wind up with a WAR tank, I'll usually ignore the slashing debuff for a few rotations to see if the WAR is going to put it up, if they don't then I proceed to do it myself for the rest of the run. When I do a dungeon as a WAR and I end up with a NIN in the group, I let them know right off that I will be keeping the slashing debuff up so they don't need to worry about it.

There are actually a few other situations in which two job combinations require some sort of coordination between them. Take WHM and DRK for example. A dpsing WHM will want to Holy spam during trash pulls, most of the time, we like to do this at the start of a trash pull, but with a DRK present that isn't always the best option. I say this because a lot of DRK like to pop Blood Price once they get all the adds together and doing a Holy spam will essentially kill their mp regen. As such, I wait to see if BP is used and then will time my Holy spam to land the first stun as BP is falling off. Other DRK tend to use BP at random times and with them, I'll just stick to my normal spam at the start instead of waiting for it.

[Miste]

Well... I kinda can't not provide the slashing debuff

Well yeah you play WAR properly but not all WARs play at full potential...I've seen quite a many who just spam butcher's combo you'd be surprised (like Cnidarian pointed out; I didn't refresh before I posted). So it's more of a relying on a stranger thing again. Some just don't bother especially when DF can be....being nice here...a bit of a let down sometimes lol.

But I should still mention that applying the slashing debuff as a warrior requires much less thinking than it does as a ninja

I definitely understand that, but I mentioned this in my post that if your rotation becomes muscle memory then sometimes as a NIN you might forget there is a WAR in the party and just do it out of habit. So in the case of less thinking it actually becomes more thinking to actually pay attention that the WAR is keeping it on and you need to change what you usually do. Just my opinion though as to show a different perspective. Obviously you are likely better than some at adapting.

Looking at slashing debuffs can't be that much more work.

There actually is a configuration option for this game to remove all debuffs on enemies but your own to minimize clutter. I know quite a few people who use it. So its possible they don't even see your debuff. This might also come back to some NIN might not even know WAR has the same slashing debuff especially since the WAR debuff has a different icon. Unless they get curious and hover their mouse over it they won't even know what it is.

If any of that sounded aggressive, it isn't toward you.

Nah I didn't take it as aggressive and I'm just showing you a different perspective because you said it confused you why this happens. I played NIN quite a bit for awhile but I don't even really play it much anymore. I am a main healer.

[Zorafin]

Nah I didn't take it as aggressive and I'm just showing you a different perspective because you said it confused you why this happens. I played NIN quite a bit for awhile but I don't even really play it much anymore. I am a main healer.

And I appreciate that. It gave me something to attack to get my frustration out of the way.

There are quite a bit that are happy just spamming their threat combo repeatedly without a care about how low their damage is.

Now my frustration has reached its limit. Good players are playing bad so they can play better with bad players. Pardon me.
*mushroom clouds*

[Hrimfaxi]

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I don't understand this. I have ninja lvl 60 and currently learning warrior (Only lvl 38 though).
I didn't know about this tbh. Mind someone explain why ninja slash debuff isn't good when with warrior? I always follow as any other ninja rotations. D:

[Zorafin]

I don't understand this. I have ninja lvl 60 and currently learning warrior (Only lvl 38 though).
I didn't know about this tbh. Mind someone explain why ninja slash debuff isn't good when with warrior? I always follow as any other ninja rotations. D:

The warrior rotation is Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block first for their threat combo. After this, they can safely do what they want for a while without worrying about threat.
After that, it's Heavy Swing > Maim to gain +20% damage, and therefore 20% more threat. Maim is the middle of their combo, so they have a choice of how to finish it. Either they finish with Storm's Path - which lowers the target's damage by 10% for 250 potency - or Storm's Eye - which lowers the target's slashing resistance by 10% (10% more damage for the warrior) for 270 potency.

When the warrior is alone, Storm's Eye is generally the obvious choice. Unless they really need to take less damage (rare), it's better for them to do 10% more damage.

This is where the ninja comes in. You'd think the best thing would be for the ninja to do the slashing debuff, and the warrior to do the damage debuff. But doing this, the warrior would do a 250 potency attack instead of a 270 potency attack, and the ninja would do a 260 potency attack instead of a 320 potency attack. So overall, to take less damage (which is rarely a concern), we're doing 80 less potency.

If I (the warrior) am not a team player, I'll just use Storm's Eye no matter what the ninja does. No damage down, but I do 20 more potency every third combo. So I win.
If you (the ninja) are not a team player, you'll ignore what the warrior is doing and keep using Dancing Edge every twenty seconds. Doing that loses 60 potency every... third combo? I'm more reactionary when I play ninja, so I'm not sure how often I do it.

So basically, it's in the Warrior's best interest to just spam his normal combo and ignore everyone. However, it's in the Ninja's best interest to pay attention to the party composition and the debuffs, and figure out what they should be doing.


In my experience as a ninja, it's not in your best interest to follow a set pattern anyway. It's in your interest to pay attention to everything that's going on, and react accordingly. If someone gains threat, Smoke Screen. If the tank needs threat, Shadewalker. If your poisons are dropping, reapply them. If your slashing debuff is dropping, reapply it. And if your slashing debuff is overwritten, allow whoever is doing it to do your work for you. Take advantage of the situation to do more damage.

[Hrimfaxi]

snip

Ah i understand now. My fault for not reading the description of the ninja move as well. Thanks for the info

[VanilleFang]

This is completely off topic but I almost thought I stumbled into the Tank subforum. Lol.
Interesting read though.

[Heliantheae]

I remember the first time I learned about the Warrior'd debuff. It was the first boss of the Vault and me and the Warrior were playing Hot Potato with the debuff until the Bard said something. And we both had no idea the other class had that skill and just kept reapplying the debuff when it went away.

Keep in mind also that you are talking about DF, not every tank in DF will try to maximize their damage. There are quite a bit that are happy just spamming their threat combo repeatedly without a care about how low their damage is. This plays into what Miste was trying to point out that some players would rather take the small potency loss that will ensure the slashing debuff is up at all times instead of relying on a DF tank to maintain it. When I do a dungeon as NIN and wind up with a WAR tank, I'll usually ignore the slashing debuff for a few rotations to see if the WAR is going to put it up, if they don't then I proceed to do it myself for the rest of the run. When I do a dungeon as a WAR and I end up with a NIN in the group, I let them know right off that I will be keeping the slashing debuff up so they don't need to worry about it.

^This, pretty much. As a Ninja main, I am very aware of when there's a Warrior in my team. At the start, I'm watching to see if they use Storms Eye and keep it up. I've seen Warrior's only use it once the entire run. I've seen them not even touch it. And it has just gotten to the point where it's just easier for me to assume I have to do it. Even when I'm with a Warrior in DF and I see them use it, it still takes about half the dungeon for me to trust them, unless they call me out on it and I know they're paying attention. I mean I know it's sad, but I can't exactly trust DF tanks. And I'm putting it all on the tanks either, I know DF Ninjas are awful too. Over half of them don't even know what Goad does and even fewer know how to use Trick Attack.

[RyuSaarva]

I decided to do aurum vale, then I noticed that we had a conjurer with level 1 glamour items, after he spoke french about 3 minutes, he left.

[Knahli]

On the topic of Warriors, please don't wait too long after initiating the first boss fight of Antitower before using Berserk so that I(as a Bard) can cleanse both your pacification and concussion rather than having to choose between the two!

As for something more "ranty", I came across a couple of Dark Knights the past few days that seem to almost completely ignore the existence of Darkside, at least for large pulls and boss fights.... also one that used their 10 second, strong damage reduction skill on four enemies.... while still running to pick up a further two - in other words, they hardly had the chance to hit her before it wore off!