Fresh 60 Help.

[Violette]

When we're speaking about theory and general raiding concepts, experience is not always necessary. You also do much to assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, just because I admitted in another thread that I haven't been in Savage yet. Such an attempt to invalidate my argument by attempting to undermine my credibility is called an ad hominem, which is a logical fallacy, and does not actually address the matter at hand. We're talking in high terms about raiding and raid progression in general, the discussion of which does not hold experience as prerequisite. Suggesting that someone can't talk about raiding concepts because they haven't raided in this game is presumptuous, and quite frankly elitist.

And?

I explained why your lack of experience was the issue, what perspective you were missing.
But let's go back and explain exactly WHAT caused the comment:

However, once the PLD and her group are to a certain gear threshold, group DPS is no longer going to be low enough to where it is required for the tank to play so aggressively.

That's a lovely dream there. "As gear increases, dps will increase". Yeah...............no.
If you ever pug A5S, you'll find that this might be true if you're lucky. Gear will increase someone's dps SLIGHTLY. I've seen dps with vastly different ilvl's pull similar numbers (on the low end of the scale). I've seen healers out dps dps (and dps then get kicked). Even in raid groups, you will still people geared to the 9's doing the bare minimum dps. (Not for long though) So it's a lovely idea, but you're relying on the idea that all raiders are skilled... nope. Quite often, you will have to put yourself out there and play to the best of your abilities to pass simple things. Like faust. I've seen groups with 230 weapons fail hummelfaust.

Extra DPS is helpful, but my point is that once you get to the point where you're not trying to make up for an undergeared team, the dance probably isn't necessary.

You can always make up for undergeared teams with time. You cannot stop trying to make up for underskilled or underachieving party members. Complacency leads to being stuck on A3S for 6 months.

It is also completely unnecessary in any other content in the game. It can be fun to do, but you shouldn't feel like you need to do it in lower tiers of content.

Just gonna answer this with ANOTHER QUOTE

Still fairly new to this game, and i'm about to get my Paladin to 60, looking for any advice as to how to get set up for the raids efficiently.

I have a history with MMO's: Dark Age of Camelot, WoW for 6 years, Aion, Vindictus and a few other randoms. With that being said, i'm taking all advice on end game tanking.

You also do much to assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, just because I admitted in another thread that I haven't been in Savage yet.We're talking in high terms about raiding and raid progression in general, the discussion of which does not hold experience as prerequisite. Suggesting that someone can't talk about raiding concepts because they haven't raided in this game is presumptuous, and quite frankly elitist.

See previous quote from OP.

Talk about raiding concepts all you like, but let's talk about what it is to raid, and to raid on curve.
I'll start with my own story of T13.

Week 1 of T13: Spirits are high, watching the MT (me) getting stomped is funny the first few times. Don't make it much past phase 1 because we're tired from clearing T12 for the first time, next few nights are just trying different things, getting used to positions.
Week 2: Much the same, some phase 2 but the balls are giving us trouble.
Week 3: Balls are not so much an issue, but the second add is having an aggro issue, getting the whm to stop medica II'ing as it spawns helps.
Week 4: Clearing second add consistently just feeling out stuff. We only raided 6hours a week, and a little bit of time is still spent not stuffing up T11/T12.
Week 5: Get up to third add, all dps now have the 130 weapon. Nailing phase 1 and most of phase 2. Get to the first divebombs.
Week 6: Start working on the adds/divebomb phase.
Week 7-11: Working on divebomb phase get through it occasionally but not consistently. Spirits get pretty low during this time. Everyone has full 130ish by now, due to pity drops coming out/hunts for upgrade items.
Week 12: We're trying all sorts of things to get through adds and the final phase, but it's not working. Group disbands.

Was it anyone's fault? No. Would having turned around and said "Oi DPS you need to do MORE DPS there's no EXCUSE" have helped? Of course not. But that feeling of "shit, why can't we get this" "what can I do to edge across the line" "how can I play better?", is not something you get by "understanding raid theory". Get in there, give it a shot. Wipe at 5%,4%,3%,2%, 1% and tell me you're not going to look at yourself and go "what can I do better next time?" "how can I get us across the line?" "how can we clear this?"

Raiding is a team activity, and in a team activity you need to always pull your weight. Turning around and going "well dps, you should be doing more DPS! Tank and healer dps isn't needed" is a great way to get yourself kicked. I'm aware of the interview about raid design, and even if they said "raids are designed around x,y,z", raiding on curve requires doing more than the bare minimum to pass. If you want to enter after full 230 gear, that's your choice. But that's a vastly different fight to the one's I've been progressing on. And I'm not saying you can't discuss raid theory (be my guest), I'm saying you if you aren't in there, experiencing wipe after wipe and trying to do better each time, you don't have the experience to be giving advice on raiding (two different things). If you get in there, with 7 other people and they're all doing what is technically required, but you're not passing, what are you doing to do?

Keep doing the bare minimum because "I'm doing my job, and that's all I gotta do"? Because that's what 7 other's are doing as well, and it's not working.
Or will you try something, like swapping stances for a bit because maybe, just maybe, that little extra damage will get you across the line?