Who does more Aoe damage: Dark vs Warrior?

[Lyth]

I think the reason why you might want to exclude vengeance from the discussion is because AoE tanking and doing AoE dps when you have no tanking responsibilities are two very different things, especially on WAR. I'm sure that there is many a WAR who charges into battle, with lofty dreams of pulling all the mobs in Deliverance and spamming Decimate and Overpower into victory. But this is what really happens:

When you go to pull a sizeable pack of mobs out of tank stance and proceed to spend your next three GCDs putting up a Storm's Eye combo, the BLM will probably pull off you somewhere in that 8-9 second interval. Mobs go everywhere. Your healer, desperately trying to heal through the unnecessary damage that you're taking out of stance as well as the extra damage on the BLM, pulls aggro, gets swarmed, and dies. Then, when awareness runs out after 15 seconds, you proceed to take 5 seconds of crits out of tank stance from the mobs during the last few seconds of RI because you forgot to mention to click it off, and you subsequently die just before pacification.

Average Potency/Second = 0.

It was probably the healer's fault, though.

[Launched]

When you go to pull a sizeable pack of mobs out of tank stance and proceed to spend your next three GCDs putting up a Storm's Eye combo, the BLM will probably pull off you somewhere in that 8-9 second interval. Mobs go everywhere.

Or, you pull in Defiance, use an Overpower when everything is grouped, and only swap to Deliverance when you've got Maim, Berserk and Bloodbath running, then pop Vengeance immediately. And then you use a macro or click off Raw Intuition so you're not getting hit by crits when Awareness runs out.

[Lyth]

I was with you until you said "macro."

But yeah, once you start including the setup time in Defiance needed to set up this theoretical burst, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off simply just dropping Vengeance from the equation and just looking at your off-tank AoE dps. You're losing far more dps from tanking than you're gaining from Vengeance.

[Launched]

I was with you until you said "macro."

But yeah, once you start including the setup time in Defiance needed to set up this theoretical burst, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off simply just dropping Vengeance from the equation and just looking at your off-tank AoE dps. You're losing far more dps from tanking than you're gaining from Vengeance.

/statusoff "Raw Intuition"
Safer than trying to right click the icon at the same time you gain or lose a buff which moves the entire row. You don't want to click off Vengeance, Berserk or Maim, right?

There's almost no setup time for doing max DPS on any trash pull. Overpower > Heavy > (Bloodbath) > Maim > (Berserk+Deliverance) > Overpower > (IR+Vengeance) > Overpower. There's definitely no reason to forget about Vengeance.

[JackFross]

/statusoff "Raw Intuition"
Safer than trying to right click the icon at the same time you gain or lose a buff which moves the entire row. You don't want to click off Vengeance, Berserk or Maim, right?

There's almost no setup time for doing max DPS on any trash pull. Overpower > Heavy > (Bloodbath) > Maim > (Berserk+Deliverance) > Overpower > (IR+Vengeance) > Overpower. There's definitely no reason to forget about Vengeance.

Deliverance+Berserk for that 9th GCD! And if you use a third hit of the combo, you can double Decimate after the Vengeance, which is a stupid boost in damage. 1 Decimate = 2 Overpower + 40 unbuffed potency per mob. x:

[Lyth]

Although now you've lost a Decimate because there's no SE, and you're sitting at 4 stacks. You could probably add it back in, but in that case you're pitting a single, unbuffed Overpower against 9 seconds of caster burst. You could add another Overpower to try and play it safe, but now you're going into your "burst" with 260 less TP.

Just let your DRK tank it and use the freedom from tanking responsibilities to maximize your own AoE dps. We both lose a lot more from the WAR tanking in AoE situations.

[JackFross]

Although now you've lost a Decimate because there's no SE, and you're sitting at 4 stacks. You could probably add it back in, but in that case you're pitting a single, unbuffed Overpower against 9 seconds of caster burst. You could add another Overpower to try and play it safe, but now you're going into your "burst" with 260 less TP.

Just let your DRK tank it and use the freedom from tanking responsibilities to maximize your own AoE dps. We both lose a lot more from the WAR tanking in AoE situations.

Considering the fact that the WAR actually has TP to spare for 9 Overpowers after Berserk wears off, it's very safe to pull in Defiance, drop 2-3 Overpowers to get hate and then roll into the dps mode with Deliverance + Berserk + Overpower spam - each of which delivering just as much Enmity as Defiance Overpower. You'll also have Raw Intuition + Vengeance rolling, so you won't even be squishier.

Defiance Overpower:
120 x 0.75 x 2.7 x 5 = 1215 potency of enmity

Deliverance + Maim + Berserk Overpower:
120 x 1.05 x 1.2 x 1.5 x 5 = 1134

[Ragnorak]

Makes Paladins Great Again?

[Yuni_Queen]

Have you tried undersized party + low level dun as a paladin? It is a nightmare.

[Destous]

WAR can throw down 3 zerked Decimates with Internal Release up; and that's what really matters.