Can Monk Outweigh the Support of Either a DRG or NIN?

[Slyqc]

@Violette

Yeah, all that is cool and everything but... yeah I'm actually going to bring you some lights here.
Same fight, same day, different composition.
You'll notice there's no AST in either of the team composition I will show you, so there's no debanlancing from Arrow and Balance card.
You'll notice I'm showing you fights where I am, so please look at Sly Hawkeye's DPS.
Here's a fight with no Dragoon :
http://www.fflogs.com/reports/2mnK74...pe=damage-done

Here's a fight WITH a Dragoon :
http://www.fflogs.com/reports/2mnK74...pe=damage-done

So yes, the Dragoon himself will give easily around 200 DPS to a Bard / MCH and that's not even counting the crit bonus it will give the entire team.

(Text too long)

[Slyqc]

(He's back, pray for your soul)

I would say Dragoon is pretty much the best supportive class for the melee DPS, so indeed Monk normally got slightly better DPS than a Dragoon, but please, don't forget to take in count his supportive ability.
The original question is, can a Monk outweight the support of a Dragoon and and Ninja.
Outweighting Ninja is probably possible since Ninja got the lowest melee DPS right now and even if he got Goad which is cool and all, he also got some enmity control but nothing as effective as the Dragoon.
In the end Monk could probably outweight that support with his DPS and Augmented Mantra that gives healers a nice rest, but I'm seriously doubting that Monk can outweight Dragoon supportive abilities.

[Waliel]

Here's a fight with no Dragoon :
http://www.fflogs.com/reports/2mnK74...pe=damage-done

Here's a fight WITH a Dragoon :
http://www.fflogs.com/reports/2mnK74...pe=damage-done

So yes, the Dragoon himself will give easily around 200 DPS to a Bard / MCH and that's not even counting the crit bonus it will give the entire team.

Your DPS before DRG would need to be about 2000 to get that big of an increase, if it's a roughly 10% increase all things considered.

Going by those logs, one could also say that bringing a DRG lowers BLM DPS by 200. Doing a quick comparison, everything in the second log has significantly higher crit rate than the first one. You just got more BL procs and a lot higher crit rate than Litany alone gives you. Not really comparable.

[Violette]

@Violette

Yeah, all that is cool and everything but... yeah I'm actually going to ignore everything you said and rant about dps

If you had actually read what I said, you would have gotten the key of what I said.

DPS is not as important as in Gordias and Paladins are now viable.


So let me try again:

Int down debuff is always mandatory for progression, as have vitality melds become. The moment you take a dragoon (and you're already taking a ninja because they have the insane burst capabilities which are the only DPS checks in Midas), you are locked into a dark knight for your main tank, to get that int down. Why is int down so important? Because the majority of raid wide damages /killing mechanics in ffxiv are MAGIC damage. See perpetual Ray, splashes in a3s, a6s, the fun that was t13, etc.

Because of Drk having int down and drg bringing more damage (though monk scales much better with gear so this might change) in a damage check heavy environment, paladin and monk got pushed to the side because their support is all in DEFENSIVE utilities, which were not needed in Gordias. (And the suck that was Pld)

Monk brings more healing, more defensive debuff and the option of a paladin, which has much more defensive utility.

Which is the point. If you take a monk, you get the option of a paladin.
If you don't, you take a Drk for int debuff. And then a warrior because warriors are just better.