Noct Ast Misconception?

[Overrated]

What if we have had it wrong all along maybe noct ast wasnt meant to replace sch as the off healer but instead allow whm to be the off healer instead in whm/ast parties

[Ragology]

Oh hmm maybe. How is WHM mp sustain while focusing on damage abilities?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

This has actually been suggested before in another topic. I'll quote myself here:

Well, there are some issues and here are some of them:
Who will be doing the AoE healing for hits big enough that it will take 2 helios or 1 medica II?
Nocturnal sect as a main healer is practically a white mage without HoTs. Thus no form of sustained healing as well as mp efficiency issues
Same accuracy "benefits" scholar had applies to Astrologian

Frankly, putting white mage in the supportive healer seat doesn't really solve anything. Neither have high or even decent affinity towards that role. It's a matter of picking your own poison as there's a lack of better.

[Judge_Xero]

Oh hmm maybe. How is WHM mp sustain while focusing on damage abilities?

It isn't great and the buffs to Ewer isn't enough to sustain WHM dps. Which is too bad because it would be OP due to WHMs single target damage and Midas Savage raid design.

[Overrated]

Thanks for the replys it was just something that crossed my mind and wondered if anybody ever thought the same and tested it out

[Ghishlain]

It's actually not a bad thought persay and it has been suggested in the past. You can't look at Noct AST + WHM in the same sense as you would Diurnal AST + SCH or WHM + SCH.

Noct AST makes the better single target healer over WHM in some respects for three reasons now:

1. Stronger core spells by 5%
2. 10% less MP cost on healing spells
3. Better MP regeneration skills

So with that in mind it's better for Noct AST to heal and WHM to DPS (and provide more MP efficient AoE heals if Medica II is sufficient) but the WHM kit doesn't have enough MP sustain to maintain good DPS in an extended fight, even with Ewer being thrown in their direction.

If you're gonna run Noct AST + WHM, it's probably better to have a more even split in healing and alternate who's DPSing to maximize DoT up time while minimizing use of the more expensive DPS spells like Stone III and Malefic II.

What you've suggested in the OP is right idea going but your group has to adjust their meta thoughts when dealing with Noct AST + WHM since the MP sustain SCH has isn't there. This is a bit of a hard sell though since it requires more coordination than normal and probably more trust versus anything + SCH combo.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

your group has to adjust their meta thoughts when dealing with Noct AST + WHM since the MP sustain SCH has isn't there.

That and:
The free fairy healing is gone. This effectively increases the mp cost over time in terms of healing. Which in turn results in less mp being allocated to damage.
I would like to throw in super virus in as well, but a summoner could make up for it and disable can have the same effect over time

[Alistaire]

What if we have had it wrong all along maybe noct ast wasnt meant to replace sch as the off healer but instead allow whm to be the off healer instead in whm/ast parties

It's not that noct ast is supposed to replace sch as a goal, but when you're looking at "the offhealer" as a role 2 classes compete for, sch wins the role, easily. AST could be completely different from and still be on par with SCH...but it isn't.

[Yhisa]

It's not that noct ast is supposed to replace sch as a goal, but when you're looking at "the offhealer" as a role 2 classes compete for, sch wins the role, easily. AST could be completely different from and still be on par with SCH...but it isn't.

Actually i think we as a community threw sch into that off healer spot and kinda demand the sch to dps, mitigate damage etc... Back in ARR not many players knew scholar exist as it was branch off from arcanist which was also a SMN

Any healer can be the off healer a sch can be a main healer if it really want to be, but it comes down drastically to the player skill and how sync ur healers are

Some healers teams heal certain parts of a fight to maximize dps and healing at the same time and form a trust with another, so in theory ANY healer can be main or off healer... Its down to the PLAYER what type of healer they are

[Krissey]

This thread makes me worried that AST doesn't have a place? Not as good as main healer as WHM not as good as DPS/Off Healer is SCH? :s