fine sand no longer sold at npc after 1.19

[Fullmetal]

4 lightning shards + tiger cod/striped goby = 12 wind shards
4 lightning shards + finger shrimp/tree toad = 12 water shards
4 lightning shards + pipira/scallop shell/ocean cloud/vongola clam = 12 fire shards
4 lightning shards + merlthor goby/rainbow trout = 12 ice shards
4 lightning shards + maiden carp/black scorpion = 12 earth shards

....and to top it all off....

4 lightning shards + malm kelp/brass loach = 12 lightning shards

....I'm guessing malm kelp won't be considered such a trash item anymore ^^.

In short:

(i) stock up on fine sand before the update if you have the space available.
(ii) save using fine sand after the update on desynthing lightning crystals to shards if anything - because it looks like the lightning shards will be in demand.
(iii) be prepared to fish a lot.

A ls mate was worrying about this yesterday. I'm not particularly concerned as I like to do my own fishing and alchemy desynths, and I don't worry about crystal selling/buying. IMHO the update makes it more difficult to desynth to shards in great quantities, but it doesn't prevent it, so the end result will probably be higher shard cost, which should also encourage people to fish and desynth their own, rather than relying on buying due to the likely increased prices.

It doesn't stop people buying shards if they want to, but it does mean that players who farm their own through fishing and desynthing will have a mat cost and profit margin advantage over the players who don't.

I don't see a problem with it.

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P.S. Additionally the extra effort needed to either obtain fine sand, or fish up the specific fish species will likely lead to a greater drain on RMT resources, thereby possibly making the overall process less appealing to them.

these are good solutions, so I will give u credit there, but its just more work for us. It was stated that the purpose of recent crafting changes were to simplify things - but this change does the contrary for alchemists. Also, not worried about the RMT, they probably make up far less than 1% of the server population. This number is a guesstimate based on the fact that for every 100 people I see, they are not bots with conspicuous names. As i see it, the RMT population is completely negligible. Shit, the game is even free and I still don't see any.

[Xenor]

With this change and gear becoming consumable the price of shards is about to rocket. SE will look into it when the price becomes an issue.

[Viridiana]

With this change and gear becoming consumable the price of shards is about to rocket. SE will look into it when the price becomes an issue.

Well, with gathering fatigue going away, this should be counter-acted a bit.

[Kinseykinz]

Also, fine sand is a CUL byproduct ranks 1-50... it really isn't hard to come by. All of us CUL's have just been NPCing it since well, there was no profit in it. Now, I don't expect it to ever be expensive but it stacks and if it sells quick, might be worth selling for cheap, so others have access. I'm also sure you will be able to chat up a CUL friend (and really if you're ranking ALC you should have one or two anyway) and maybe do a cooking oil/couple stacks of sand exchange. Or grind up some grains for them...a CUL that actually cooks enjoys rye flour/wheat flour.

[Fullmetal]

yea im sure its not that hard to get, but the main issue for me is that you can only craft 40 items per hour if you spam standard synthesis - and maybe 70 if you spam hasty hand. I go through lots of this stuff, so its just adding another step of the process for me and going to take a couple hours just to make enough sand. Then, i still need to break down my fish into crystals and then break the crystals down into shards - its all very very time consuming and this extra time sink really pisses me off - im already doing more than enough. OH and I also need to catch the fish as well....So yea...fuck this shit...i will just buy it from the market when i run out, i hope you CUL are going to be mass producing it.

[Kinseykinz]

okay... but i never suggested that YOU craft the sand. I said trade for it or buy it from an actual player, someone that can put the money to use...NPC's just burn it in a bonfire...I've seen them :P.

Also, CUL will only start selling it if/when there's a known demand for it. So in the beginning, talking to a friend or even going to the guild and asking if anyone has it for sale, should help you...albeit, it's currently a quiet guild. But currently, it's like 358ish from npc...so if you offered a CUL 350 ea. a sand, you'd be saving a hair of gil per stack with the pc instead of buying from an NPC. Also, you *can* set your retainer up to buy if for you (although I don't know how many people look for 'buyers')

And trust me, I understand the 'it's a pain to add this to my synth-load' rant BUT you're whining to a CUL about this. Thank God my LS loves me and I have rank 50 BTN's/FSH's that 'donate'/farm for me...but even with this, I'm out fishing AND as BTN just to gather the mats I need. You need a stack of sand and a stack of fish. I need on average 6 items per synth for rank 40+ synths.

I do get it... it sucks that right now, you need to rely on 'the weakest/least popular' craft to get a synth item that is your bread and butter. But I really do think if you start talking to someone who's ranking CUL (esp. someone on the 'fish grinding path), you'll be able to work something out. I know I'd give an ALC (meaning free) a stack or two of sand if they just grinded some of my wheat/rye into flour or made me some olive oils. (and I can make these, it'd just be nice to save time) I don't even rank my cul on 'fish grinding, but i'd grab my oysters and go 'pearl hunting' if it'd help someone out.

Lastly, I NPC'd sand today because I didn't know this whole 'sand thing' I'll save it now, sell it when I stack it. But all you ALC's need to let people know 'hey, I need this because SE changed my seller, can you help me?' Just be fair back and you'll get good treatment.

[Celtodeno]

Also, they know RMT bots are fishing to infinitely generate shards to sell in MW. Fine Sand disappearing from an NPC doesn't surprise me or anger me at all. It literally shuts down the crystal > shard end of the RMT shard bots. Now instead of farming fish that give 3x the crystals needed to synth it they will be forced to fish for ones that make the actual shards, or split their bots to farm sand.

This thesis is unsound. The bots will keep botting fish and botting the sand. This change will only serve to increase the price of shards making botting them more lucrative. At the same time it will be much less likely to see regular player going through all of this work, especially when they can remember simply being able to buy it off an Npc for 36k a stack.

[Celtodeno]

Also, fine sand is a CUL byproduct ranks 1-50... it really isn't hard to come by. All of us CUL's have just been NPCing it since well, there was no profit in it. Now, I don't expect it to ever be expensive but it stacks and if it sells quick, might be worth selling for cheap, so others have access. I'm also sure you will be able to chat up a CUL friend (and really if you're ranking ALC you should have one or two anyway) and maybe do a cooking oil/couple stacks of sand exchange. Or grind up some grains for them...a CUL that actually cooks enjoys rye flour/wheat flour.

This is 100% incorrect. Cul's make Sea Sand and River sand. It take 6 of each for a GSM to make one fine sand. that 6 Fish synth + 1 GSM + 1 ALK to break one crystal. it take about an hour to do 40 synths, so youre now looking at ~10 minutes to break one crystal.

[Fullmetal]

this is indeed correct - plus the number of shards you will need to make all the sand will kill any shard gains you get by breaking down the crystals when you do finally have the sand. for example u will need 6-12 wind shards just to make 6 sands + at least 6 fish. if you finally use the fine sand to break down a wind crystal, your net gain is only 4-10 shards. for the alchemist who wants to do everything himself, he will now also be required to level cul and gsm. this is completely undermining the purpose of the simplified crafting.

[Fullmetal]

@ Celtodeno: i agree. Also, it is also completely wrong to assume that all bots are RMT, that is simply not the truth. Probably only a very small fraction of bots are RMT. I know several people in the game who bot just because they want to make themselves more wealthy and dont have the time to do it themselves for whatever reason. Also, 10 minutes to break 1 crystal is completely ridiculous. I break down crystals 50-100 at a time. Like I said previously, there were so many changes that it is literally impossible for the devs to have thought them all through. removing fine sand from npc is a mistake.