Cleric stance needs change just for melding sake as healer

[OpheliaHeartilly]

The fact that as a scholar, I can't reliably use one of my most important job skills for MP management (energy drain) in end game content without melding accuracy is a bit of an oversight. Healer resource management can be intense during progression especially if ppl need to be raised. On my server there was a group looking for a SCH with minimum 571 accuracy for a7s progression. This is getting a little out of hand. Everytime I get a 240 accessory I cringe because there aren't enough slots on it to meld the accuracy I am being requested to have to participate in the content that I am doing to get the reward.

[Kaurie]

The fact that as a scholar, I can't reliably use one of my most important job skills for MP management (energy drain) in end game content without melding accuracy is a bit of an oversight. Healer resource management can be intense during progression especially if ppl need to be raised. On my server there was a group looking for a SCH with minimum 571 accuracy for a7s progression. This is getting a little out of hand. Everytime I get a 240 accessory I cringe because there aren't enough slots on it to meld the accuracy I am being requested to have to participate in the content that I am doing to get the reward.

Energy Drain restores MP even if you miss. The miss only prevents damage done.

[Rawrz]

The fact that as a scholar, I can't reliably use one of my most important job skills for MP management (energy drain) in end game content without melding accuracy is a bit of an oversight. Healer resource management can be intense during progression especially if ppl need to be raised. On my server there was a group looking for a SCH with minimum 571 accuracy for a7s progression. This is getting a little out of hand. Everytime I get a 240 accessory I cringe because there aren't enough slots on it to meld the accuracy I am being requested to have to participate in the content that I am doing to get the reward.

I thought about this too. (I even passed on the bracelet and immediately regretted it Dx) When relic upgrades again we'll be able to stuff it full of accuracy or at least to the degree that makes things possible without overmelding. Long ways away. Probably another month or two. :/ until then my bis goal is keeping my +12 crit +36 acc rings and the rest tier V accs with food with basic accuracy. :c

Energy Drain restores MP even if you miss. The miss only prevents damage done.

Last I checked is you missed you didn't get the MP. Maybe it changed when astral fire/ice buffs changed but I don't think so. I'll check tonight

[Kaurie]

1. Healers can meld for healing and increase their performance in their primary (and expected) function
2. Healers can meld Accuracy and thus reducing their overall healing capacity to allow them to perform an optional role at a higher capacity

Wow that is a long post heh. Anyway I wanted to respond to this part.

Point #2 is only true (in that it reduces overall healing capacity) if healing is pushed. In most situations, you will be achieving overheal of some sort.

Say for example you want to slot DET. When I last tested, 100 DET adds ~1 HP to your heals. So, let's say you meld fully for this and get 216 DET or 2.16 extra HP per heal on average.

If your tank has 25k hp and is down to 15k and your heals do 3k each, then you need to do 4 heals to fully top them off. In one situation (with melded det) you will do 4 x (3000+2.16) = 12008.64 HP and the other with accuracy you do 4x3000 = 12000 HP. In both situations, you cast the same number of heals, but in situation one your overheal is just slightly higher. The horrible scaling of DET is too low to actually provide 1 less heal as an option. In fact it would take 1389 heals before you achieve the 1 less heal function.

Say for example you slot CRIT.

The approximate crit rate formula is ((CRT-354)*0.0233)+4.9511233 with crit severity formula is ((CRT-354)*0.0002335)+1.4482348. If we slot in 216 CRIT into both then we get:
ADDED CRIT RATE = +5.03%
ADDED CRIT SEVERITY = +0.05x

Therefore, in the same situation as above, if your heals do 3k each, but now have a 5% higher chance of doing 0.05x more than previous crits then you will still likely need to do 4 heals. Here are the two options (note this is assuming a 0% crit rate when no crits are melded, due to the baseline value of having that crit chance with accuracy melded):

3 heals = 3 x (0.95 x 3000 + 0.05 x 3000 x 1.55) = 9247.5
4 heals = 4 x (0.95 x 3000 + 0.05 x 3000 x 1.55) = 12330

vs 9000 and 12000 respectively.

As you can see, while CRIT scales significantly better than DET (why would you ever slot DET materia ugh), it still isn't enough to reliably reduce the amount of heals going out, so much that "Healers can meld Accuracy and thus reducing their overall healing capacity to allow them to perform an optional role at a higher capacity".

In essence, my argument is that a healer who melds accuracy still has the same effective healing capacity as one who melds other items, while also having the ability to assist with DPS which in turns kill things faster and lowers the incoming damage to the tank.

Last I checked is you missed you didn't get the MP. Maybe it changed when astral fire/ice buffs changed but I don't think so. I'll check tonight

Been this way for a long time, I gained MP back while missing E-Drains fighting Bahamut in T13 - for example.

EDIT: it is possible I am wrong on this, but that has been my understanding. I am researching it now.
EDIT2: I can't find anything concrete online - contradicting information. I'll try to test if I can later. Let me know what you find

[Knoahl]

EDIT2: I can't find anything concrete online - contradicting information. I'll try to test if I can later. Let me know what you find

I dps often as my SCH, it doesn't grant the MP when you miss, it can be really frustrating :/

[winsock]

Perhaps you can explain yourself here because I'm not quite sure what your point is about the MND/INT transposition dynamic. I will say this and reiterate my previous point regarding Cleric Stance and Accuracy.

I believe that Cleric Stance...

Your elaboration filled in the blanks of the stuff I wanted to know about your stance, and I believe it more or less revealed that we probably wont come to an agreement about an acc bonus, almost solely because we are working with a different premise. I do understand where you're coming from as well as your reasoning in regards to cleric stance, I just disagree with it.

To explain my self in regards to the MND/INT conversion:
Rather than a MSQ assist, I've always seen cleric stance as more of an "enabler of attack skills". Part of why I see it this way is that if it is viewed as a MSQ assist, you almost certainly need to view every offensive healer skill as a MSQ assist because they require INT to be useful. In other words:
* if you took the 'assist' away, you'd also make most attack skills irrelevant

Further, MSQ does not require the sheer volume of attack skills we have in order to complete MSQ stuff in a reasonable amount of time. For example, out of the 5 new HW skills, WHMs can attack with 3 of them. Without these skills, MSQ would still easily be completed in an acceptable amount of time.

Lastly, the new healer training mission suggest that players use offensive skills during downtime.

For these reasons, I see cleric stance as more or an "enabler", but without appropriate levels accuracy, it doesnt 'enable' very well.

The above Healer choice is something I like because it encourages healer to think and decide what they feel is optimal for themselves and the group they're participating in
...
Healer's have a flexibility that DPS and Tanks do not - the ability to meld Accuracy to augment their DPS.

This highlights another topic that i think we may have conflicting premises about. I dont believe that choice is automatically good. Choice can be implemented in both positive and negative ways. STR vs VIT pre 3.2 had some positive design components to it in that you could trade hp for better threat/absorb, etc... and a negative design component if the tank's max hp was so low that everyone in the group had to pay for it.

Of course, giving healers an acc bonus certainly would not eliminate all choice on secondaries, it would eliminate 1 choice. The impact of eliminating that 1 choice IMO is positive overall.

The question for me becomes:
"Would you rather a healer you pick up to focus their healer stats or dps stats?"
Because healing is their job, I'd answer 'healer' to ensure they are equipped to perform that job to the best of their ability, but that will not happen unless acc is removed as a requirement. If I'm going to spend the MP on Holy, it had better hit every target lol.

[FoxyAreku]

Energy Drain restores MP even if you miss. The miss only prevents damage done.

Where did this rumor come from? You're the second person to say this and it is blatantly untrue and has ALWAYS been untrue.

I remember energy draining in T13 and getting so frustrated at it missing and not giving me MP. And I just missed an energy drain yesterday and also didn't get MP back.

[Tint]

i want to throw something in, because i read here often tanks and DDs have to stack accuracy and healers shouldn't get a free pass...

the thing is: healers already have a stat wich works the same as accuracy for them: Piety

piety doesn't improve healing or dpsing or anything. it just prevents you from going out of mana. if you have not enough piety you will have sereous troubles to clear content. if you have too much you are wasting your stats.

so why have a healer to stack piety AND accuracy? no other class has to stack 2 stats just to meet the basic requirements.

[Jaiy]

how do you leave the FC your in on PC?

[AngelicSence]

the thing is: healers already have a stat wich works the same as accuracy for them: Piety

so why have a healer to stack piety AND accuracy? no other class has to stack 2 stats just to meet the basic requirements.

I'm supporting healer accuracy because it's not justified and SE already admitted it was their mistake and there will be some changes soon. However, Piety is not an issue. I would like you to be on the same board here. Every healers get Piety from the gear, it might not be on every piece, but just good enough. It's not that much of a deal. Also, stacking piety is a personal choice, since high piety vs high crit or high det will putup a good competition. Meanwhile, accuracy will prevent you from dealing damage and will result in waste of mana, waste of time. Piety and Accuracy are 2 different things.