FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Will Red Mage be just like astrologian? A fusion between SMN & Blm.

[CGMidlander]

Because it's fun? Everything except class/job quest lines in this game can be done as one job anyway so that's all it boils down to.

Why bother getting gear for a tank, a healer, and a DPS if RDM can do it all with one set?

How would it be fair if getting a relic for RDM essentially means getting a relic for all 3 roles?

If RDM it at all any good at the three party roles, there would be resource allocation efficiency implications.

[silentwindfr]

all the people hoping for a jobs that will be able to be tank, dps and healer can stop immediatly it will never happend. this talk did happend while the beta and already at this time, they have said it will never happend.
it's not wow here, we are in FF14, the fact to give the power to one jobs to be good in 3 different role is not good. the balance will be broken. and until now, we can say that the balance in the game is kinda good.

anyway, the red mage will be a dps, and i guess the only heal he will get will be a bit like the self heal of the monk.... a self heal with CD.

[nexas506]

Iv said it before and ill say it again; Regardless of what red mage is going to be, I'd still like to see an equal amount of spells (mp) and weapon skills (tp) but at a higher than average cost, since its using both tp and mp abilities

[Voltyblast]

all the people hoping for a jobs that will be able to be tank, dps and healer can stop immediatly it will never happend. this talk did happend while the beta and already at this time, they have said it will never happend.
it's not wow here, we are in FF14, the fact to give the power to one jobs to be good in 3 different role is not good. the balance will be broken.

The issue here is that the game isn't "vast" enough to include the possibility of multi-role classes. If we had more stats, more special effects, more differentiated armor types, more unique playstyles and etc I can guarantee you that this is possible...but we're in a game where dps is the only meta, where Parry is the worst tanking stat ever, and there's no special effects of any sorts on a relic weapon. In terms of customization it's very barebone and that's why we can't have these things yet: it's hard to introduce them and being original

Besides this isn't completely impossible if you think about it.

Warriors can dps and even have a dps stance, complete with unique skills on said stance, but they're fixed on their role as tank without any chances of being modified.
Lancers Could tank since they high armor and decent aoe skills and if possible even defensive buffs (Keen Flurry is 80% parry boost!).
Even monks could tank if they were designed differently: they already have a defense stance (Fists of Earth, although it's only 10%), they have excellent aoe skills and they have also a couple of good defensive buffs they can use (Keen Flurry and Featherfoot).

The potential is there but the game isn't very extended yet: until we get a sort of of improvement over the stats or something there's just no way we can have these choices. I mean look at the new jobs we got in the expansion...

AST is a mix of SCH and WHM and despite the fact I like the card mechanics (and it's kind of important too), it basically copies the other two healers in order to help the other healer by switching stances. A literal Jack of all Trade healer for now that doesn't stand out if compared to the other two, but thanks to its cards it actually is quite unique. If only they had their own healing mechanics instead of copying others...

MCH is a BRD, complete with "songs" and "caster mode" at 52. The ammo gimmick isn't exactly unique since it's essentially a procc buff and the turret it's just a switching dot that changes attack in aoe or single target. Feels rather underdeveloped Imo.

DRK is a PLD, but heavy emphasis on mana consume - which isn't a fun gimmick Imo - but almost plays identically like a paladin. All that emphasis on parry and magic defense, yet we only get one skill that reacts to parry (Reprisal) and the magic defense it's just a 10s buff. Oh did I mention that parry is useless in this game?

So yeah, the balance is "kinda good" but that's because they haven't tried anything new with their classes yet. The only job that really felt new was the ninja, and that's because it had stealth (which isn't very good but hey it's there) it had ninjutsu (which actually demands input: annoying but it's undeniably interesting) and it was the first DPS job to have slash damage (DRK it's slash damage but it's a tank, MCH is pierce like Bard...hey where's another Blunt job?)

So I really hope that whatever they'll do with RDM (or any new jobs really), we get AT LEAST something original for them. I don't want a Job who's a mix of two others and if I'm asking too much...then I dunno, is it really asking too much for a really new job?

Or we're gonna get hybrids of older ones for the next expansions?

[Blindheart]

Samurai needs to be DPS and share gear with Dragoon. So that leaves tank and healer open for red Mage...Mage tank could be awesome, and could use tank stances to play as tank or "DPS"... Then toss in blue Mage as a healer!

[Naelle]

I'd like to see them as a melee (rapier) support job. Forget the black magic and white magic for a minute and consider en-spells, haste, slow, refresh, etc. I'm imagining the melee counterpart to bard/machinist. I think to make it feel more unique give them a single weapon combo and a couple of spell combos that are all instant cast to facilitate melee range. Lunge -> Swift Strike -> Flurry and maybe use spell names like Fira and Blizzara. Just ideas.

Tldr: melee version of bard/machinist with instant cast spell combos.

[hagare]

Then why bother leveling anything else up?

gameplay differences? Different uses?
Why do you play one class over the other?
Why aren't people only playing DRG/MNK/NIN?
Why are there people playing PLD and DRK when we all know that WAR is BEST! TANK!
Why do people still play WHM and SCH when AST can fill both roles?

[Duelle]

But, they have the same number of buttons in Legion and Warlords as they did then... The only real change that's occurred since Wrath were WoG and the shift to a (basically) Arms 6s window playstyle in Legion, with less downtime but fewer button-choices. ...though if they weren't filling empty GCDs with utility that comes basically free to Ret, well then... that's like people saying NIN is dull because they don't know how to use Trick Attack...

That's not how it went. Ret went from a First-Come-First-Serve rotation with gaps for utility to a copy of rogue gameplay between Holy Power v1 and the finishers (Word of Glory, Templar's Verdict and Inquisition).

Moreover, combos don't add choice.

I'm aware that they don't. What I'm talking about is an attempt to at least keep players busy enough gameplay-wise that asinine arguments like "I'm not pushing enough buttons to deal this much DPS" never come up. It's purely a psychology thing.

At the same time though, those heals for were actually free for you as filler GCDs when AAs hadn't yet procced Exo's reset and nothing else was up.

Flash of Light was never free. The whole point of the Art of War mechanic was that it made those FoL's instant so that you only spend one GCD doing off-heals without wasting any time. To mirror this on RDM, you'd need to make Cure or whatever RDM-native heal waste enough time that you're encouraged to analyze each situation and then decide whether you should use your proc on a damage spell (equally inconvenient to cast outside of procs for the sake of balance) or a heal. You could even add a bonus to such a mechanic that spells cast that consume the proc would not interrupt combos to further encourage the RDM to weave those spells in.

[Morningstar1337]

At this point I'm inclined to ask if RDN is like SMN, as in is RDM a class that has been handled inconsistently form game to game?

[Ehra]

I could see RDM being made into a sword wielding healer. Other than Red Mage, Dancer, and Chemist, I can't see too many other available jobs that could be healers, making me think healing is the role they'd go with RDM. And, personally, any time I've used a RDM in a single player game it was to have a healer who could swing a sword, black magic being an afterthought. Dragoons have set a precedent that SE isn't afraid to provide an armor type that's used by one Job, so you could potentially give them some heavier healing gear. FF11 introduced the En- spell line and Dimensions added the ability to cast spells through melee strikes (similar to the FF5 Mystic Knight). You could throw in some ranged nukes, but overall their damage dealing skills would revolve around enchanting their blade with elemental magic.

Seems like a reasonable way to fit them into the trinity while retaining the 3 most iconic aspects of the class.