Lore questions about Miqo'te

[Krissey]

Not quite so clearly, actually.


Since she goes on, still using "it" as the subject, I doubt she's talking about his longevity as "the maniacal ravings of a [...] madman". Sure, it might just be poor grammar use, but... "Poor grammar" is not going to be my assumption when playing an official game.



Quite possibly, but I'd still argue that in-game information trumps out-of-game information. Like I said, it might be just poor wording. Gods know it's tricky to proofread your own texts because your brain tells you it's obvious what it means (because you know the intention), when an outsider can tell you it can be interpreted in several ways, and only one of those is the way you intended.



Wait... You're saying that there'd be no surprise/shock because it's not supposed to be possible.


Aaaanyway, this is a complete aside from the thread topic in general.

Yet you insist on "being right" when proven wrong by official sources. So. Stop please.

[Noxifer]

Yet you insist on "being right" when proven wrong by official sources. So. Stop please.

I wasn't insisting on being right, just saying that the in-game information gives a completely different impression. And that to me personally, in-game information trumps information given outside of the game which makes the clash with Fernehalwes' post disconcerting to me. I'm not claiming that Fernhalwes is wrong, just that it was not the impression I got.

[Krissey]

I wasn't insisting on being right, just saying that the in-game information gives a completely different impression. And that to me personally, in-game information trumps information given outside of the game which makes the clash with Fernehalwes' post disconcerting to me. I'm not claiming that Fernhalwes is wrong, just that it was not the impression I got.

Well I'll clarify for you. The use of "it" in that sentence means "I've never seen a scenario quite like this before." Therefore the entire thing. A long lived lalafell who meditated through a jail cell thing. The "it' not uncommon" impression you get is that people in jail are often insane, therefore another insane person in prison isn't surprising.

You're twisting the narrative so hard to confirm your bias instead of reading it objectively.

Furthermore in reading the dialogue as notated here: http://xivdb.com/quest/66609/Taking+The+Black there is no such mention of "I've never seen anything like it." Granted it's not direct screen shots, but it seems to be word for word transcribing from the game.

[Noxifer]

Well I'll clarify for you. The use of "it" in that sentence means "I've never seen a scenario quite like this before."[...] there is no such mention of "I've never seen anything like it." Granted it's not direct screen shots, but it seems to be word for word transcribing from the game.

^^; You can't argue for both facts. I went by what someone quoted, which I admit was my mistake; I should have double-checked. However, the dialogue from xivdb is even less 'shocked' over the longevity. It mentions it casually, then goes on to reveal what Ququruka claims, concluding with the opinion that Ququruka's tale is a farce he made up. Even less reference to the entire "serving one hundred years of a life sentence" being something out of the ordinary. With nothing else to go by (since I don't frequent the Lore forum), I took that to imply that Lalafells living for well over a century -- I have a vague recollection of a mention of him studying for longer than aforementioned one hundred years, but since I can't find it in that quest dialogue or the one after it, it might have been non-quest NPC dialogue with Lalai -- isn't completely uncommon.

I'm not twisting the narrative, though I admit I went by the memory of how I interpreted the quest dialogue and applied it to the quoted text, without checking to make sure said quoted text was correct. I'll also admit there might be differences in the various localizations -- it wouldn't be the first time the English localization is easy to misinterpret.

[reiichi]

In the same exact Lore Panel, it was also stated that in-game characters (NPCs included) lie. Or tell what they /believe/ is the truth. There's a ton of misinformation being spread around because people within the setting simply don't know.

The prime example I usually see given is the whole Drowned Wench in Sastasha Hard Mode. Those aren't dead ladies. Those are Allagan experiments. The folklore surrounding them has gotten muddled.

But this part of the thread has -really- strayed from the topic. Why not go post a thread in the Lore section to have more cited facts tossed around?

[Sounsyy]

Not incorrect text, just different version. The 1.0 and 2.0 versions of the quest are nearly identical. I have most 1.0 quest text on hand in my notes, so those are my go-to for quoting. While I also frequently do use xivdb dialogue for quotes, you should know that there are several quest pages that leave out large swathes of dialogue. So I went and verified the 2.0 texts by rewatching the cutscenes to make sure they were fully accurate.

v1.0:

I've been waiting for you─in a way. Please, let me explain. Do you know of the Marasaja Pit? It is a prison, here in Ul'dah. In prison, a man will do most anything to keep his mind occupied. Indeed, of late one of the inmates claims to hear the voice of Nald'thal. No doubt he has lost his mind after serving one hundred years of his life sentence. He claims the Traders revealed to him that an adventurer bearing your name would come to hunt down foul beasts to procure what he calls the Gem of Shatotto. And with this gem would come the prisoner's freedom.

I've never seen anything quite like it. Of course, I make it for nothing more than the maniacal ravings of a cellcrazed, sweatytoothed madman. His name is Ququruka, and as if his story were not proof enough of his lunacy, he also styles himself a black mage. But such magic was lost to Eorzea centuries ago. Who does this senile charlatan think he will fool with such rubbish? <sigh> Nevertheless, some among the Order believe it ill-advised to ignore his words. And though I am still no believer, you have come, as he said you would.

v2.0:

I've been waiting for you─in a way. Please, let me explain. Do you know of the Marasaja Pit? It is a prison, here in Ul'dah. In prison, a man will do most anything to keep his mind occupied. Of late, one inmate claims to hear the voice of Nald'thal. No doubt he has lost his mind after serving one hundred years of a life sentence. But, he knew of you by name, Sounsyy, and maintains the Traders demand you win the Gem of Shatotto and exchange it for his release.

A farce, no doubt. I make it for nothing more than the maniacal ravings of a cell-crazed, sweaty-toothed madman. But I fear the only way to be sure is to free him of the Pit. The prisoner's name is Ququruka Tataruka, and as if his story were not proof enough of his lunacy, he also styles himself a black mage. But such magic was lost to Eorzea centuries ago. Who does this senile charlatan think he will fool with such rubbish? <sigh> Nevertheless, he has invoked the name of Nald'thal, and so the Order feels it unwise to ignore his words. Though I am still no believer, you have come, as he said you would.

So, you have both quotes now. Feel free to pick them apart for shock or whatever emotion you think you should find in regards to Ququruka being old. I still maintain that we have Fernehalwes, the person who got us the lore forums, works side by side with Oda the lore writer, and this quote was taken from an official lore panel saying that all races biologically live the same age and that Ququruka was an exception, not the rule. If that's not enough for you, then I don't really know what to tell you? Believe what you want to believe, but at least provide sources for Lalafell other than Ququruka maintaining such longevity? You keep saying that Yayake's laissez attitude towards his incarceration sentence is evidence of common aging, but I personally don't seem to be reading it that way?


As for the text where Ququruka talks about studying for longer than 100 years, I've quoted it below (the 2.0 version this time). He did study beforehand. He was a young man when he discovered Black Magic, studied it for several years, didn't get anywhere with it until he met the beastman black mages, and then shortly thereafter he imprisoned himself. Which is why in my first post on Ququruka I estimated he was between 30-50 years old prior to his self-imposed incarceration, making him 130-150 at his release. Roughly.

No doubt you are all eager to hear what truly transpired one hundred years ago. Being a kindly soul, I shall tell you. I was an ambitious mage in my youth - insatiable in my thirst for knowledge of the arcane. In the course of my studies, I discovered ancient writings which told of a black magic. A magic capable of destroying as only the gods can.

It was innocent at first. Until it wasn't. But then questions began to arise in my mind that demanded answers. Where had all the black mages of old gone? Why had the existence of the art been hidden? And so I probed. Endlessly. Tirelessly. The more I uncovered, the more it drew me in. There was such... power to be had. I was not merely ambitious. I was also vainglorious. I desired recognition. Deference. By accomplishing that which no other could, I sought to make my legacy an eternal one.

Yet the pursuit of black magic was... trying. I would pass days, weeks, months at a time, unsure of how to proceed. And what little progress did come, came but slowly. It was then that I met your ancestors. The Gem of Shatotto, the power to sense magic, the relics - all of these things I owe to them. With their vast knowledge, the slow crawl of my studies turned to leaps and bounds.

I daresay your ancestors sought the same recognition as I. Kazibb Chah, ridiculed by the Amalj'aa for his ingenious analysis of worldly phenomena. Hetali Meloc, named a pariah for not sharing in the small-minded prejudices of the Ixal. Da Gu, a victim of his kind's idiocy, bound never to leave the land of the kobolds. We toiled together, learning what we could. And learn we did. Much and more. Imagining we had gleaned all that was to be known, we prepared to hold a dark rite - one we believed would restore black magic to its fullest expression.

I do not know what came over me. I... Blinded by my own lust for power, I altered one of the incantations. It was... arrogant. Foolish. Our command over the ancient powers we summoned was lost. I watched as the chaotic aether washed over my friends, ripping them apart, only to fuse them together into an... abomination.When I watched what my hubris had created, I mustered all of my strength to see Barbatos sealed behind the voidgate. Sealed- yet not defeated.

Yet I felt myself corrupted by the aether, and was unsure whether I could hold my powers in check. Fearful, I returned to Ul'dah where I manipulated the minds of a few thaumaturges of the Order into believing I had committed some terrible crime. Only with me confined to the depths of the Marasaja Pit could the realm be safe. And there I remained - waiting. Waiting for the coming of one with the power to purify the aether of those three friends with whom I once shared a dream. I do not expect your forgiveness, but I am truly sorry. I am not long for this world. Here, take this relic while I still have strength enough to offer it.

(Feel free to check the dialogue yourself if you'd like? It's under the quest Always Bet on Black. You can watch it in your inn room.)

[Pells]

v2.0:

I've been waiting for you─in a way. Please, let me explain. Do you know of the Marasaja Pit? It is a prison, here in Ul'dah. In prison, a man will do most anything to keep his mind occupied. Of late, one inmate claims to hear the voice of Nald'thal. No doubt he has lost his mind after serving one hundred years of a life sentence. But, he knew of you by name, Sounsyy, and maintains the Traders demand you win the Gem of Shatotto and exchange it for his release.

A farce, no doubt. I make it for nothing more than the maniacal ravings of a cell-crazed, sweaty-toothed madman. But I fear the only way to be sure is to free him of the Pit. The prisoner's name is Ququruka Tataruka, and as if his story were not proof enough of his lunacy, he also styles himself a black mage. But such magic was lost to Eorzea centuries ago. Who does this senile charlatan think he will fool with such rubbish? <sigh> Nevertheless, he has invoked the name of Nald'thal, and so the Order feels it unwise to ignore his words. Though I am still no believer, you have come, as he said you would.

So, you have both quotes now. Feel free to pick them apart for shock or whatever emotion you think you should find in regards to Ququruka being old.

I'm noticing that Yayake goes on to say that Black Magic doesn't exist any more. You then go on to meet four living masters of the black arts. Either Yayake is mistaken, or is lying to you. Her statement on Ququruka being in jail for a century isn't much more reliable.

[ExKage]

I'm noticing that Yayake goes on to say that Black Magic doesn't exist any more. You then go on to meet four living masters of the black arts. Either Yayake is mistaken, or is lying to you. Her statement on Ququruka being in jail for a century isn't much more reliable.

I feel bad for continuing this but, well here goes. As reiichi has mentioned before, the NPCs in the game are not omniscient. Yayake is certainly mistaken. She doesn't believe that there could even be black mages (she certainly thinks Ququruka is a farce). And then keep in mind the next black mages are also mostly beast men who most of Ul'dah see as 'other' but the main truth is that Yayake just simply did not know or did not believe Ququruka.

[Velox]

snip

That is true, and I know that few Nuhn's ever really become leaders. My statement was more or less a blanket for all males though. Remember that Seekers of the Sun tribal life is modeled after pride structure of the West African Lion. That is, there is typically 1-3 males per pride overseeing the pride as a whole, while the strongest one ends up fathering the offspring of all the females. I will say that the term "leader" does mean something different in this context, and the context for Seekers, but for the most part the males are the leaders because their primary goal is to protect the tribe/pride structure as a whole and the children/cubs who are too young to venture out themselves. The females in both Seeker tribes and Lion prides do most of the work hunting and gathering, so you could say that from a push-comes-to-shove perspective, they are indeed the "leaders" because they make sure everyone is fed and keeps on surviving, but the males do tend to protect the pride from other males and make sure the strongest genes remain in the genepool (until a male is defeated, in which case they are replaced as the breeding male in both Seeker tribes and Lion prides).

This stuff is fascinating xD
As I'm typing this, all I can hear in my head is Sir David Attenborough's voice T_T

[Krissey]

That is true, and I know that few Nuhn's ever really become leaders. My statement was more or less a blanket for all males though. Remember that Seekers of the Sun tribal life is modeled after pride structure of the West African Lion. That is, there is typically 1-3 males per pride overseeing the pride as a whole, while the strongest one ends up fathering the offspring of all the females. I will say that the term "leader" does mean something different in this context, and the context for Seekers, but for the most part the males are the leaders because their primary goal is to protect the tribe/pride structure as a whole and the children/cubs who are too young to venture out themselves. The females in both Seeker tribes and Lion prides do most of the work hunting and gathering, so you could say that from a push-comes-to-shove perspective, they are indeed the "leaders" because they make sure everyone is fed and keeps on surviving, but the males do tend to protect the pride from other males and make sure the strongest genes remain in the genepool (until a male is defeated, in which case they are replaced as the breeding male in both Seeker tribes and Lion prides).

This stuff is fascinating xD
As I'm typing this, all I can hear in my head is Sir David Attenborough's voice T_T

So what are the other ones based off of? Hyenas? (Who are not cats, but do have similar social structures of roaming males and predominantly female leadership, etc..)