I just don't get it.

[Felis]

And no, I dont want to "wait" for gear upgrades, i just don't want it to be set in ONE new instance they release every 3 months, just like it always is.

max ilevel increase is all 6 months, not all 3 months.

[Igziabeher]

max ilevel increase is all 6 months, not all 3 months.

nice semantics. the fact that you even *know* just proves my point, bud. "durp, 6 months til this gear is useless, better get it fast!!!!" like lol...........we serious here?

[Slappah]

nice semantics. the fact that you even *know* just proves my point, bud. "durp, 6 months til this gear is useless, better get it fast!!!!" like lol...........we serious here?

Are YOU serious?

Like...what

First off, "better get it fast"
Yeah because 6 months is totally a short amount of time

Do you want shit random for the sake of it being random?

"Ohhh durp I wonder how long this gear will last. Oh only a day?! Sick! Oh hey how long is this gear gonna last? 7 years. Sweet dude!"

Also making fun of people's grammar, you're cool.

English isn't everyone's first language ya know.

[Igziabeher]

Well aware I'm not the most eloquent out there, Damona and Erza probably expressed my opinion in a way that may be easier for people to take seriously. For anyone who thinks I'm being a troll, you're even moreso proving my point by saying that. You basically took what i said right before you posted and just inverted it. I'm asking peoples opinions, if that's trolling, then you have a skewed perception on how human interaction works ^^. If I seem defensive its because you're being offensive, rather than constructive. And if you find me being offensive, then I'm sure you will recall the kindergarten lesson in which you were taught that offense isn't the ideal reaction to being offended I appreciate that the majority of people didn't react like Slappah did, but always gonna be one ;]

shurri: your picture defines the problem. its meme-worthy.......its a meme....hows that okay?

[Shurrikhan]

shurri: your picture defines the problem. its meme-worthy.......its a meme....hows that okay?

Honestly just made it a moment ago. I was just thinking of a long, wasteful, winding road that somehow things it's shooting for great heights. Looked up a pic of a "rocket launching, smoke" and annotated accordingly...

On topic:
@Damona

Agreed on pretty much all accounts. As for the community getting hooked on relatively trivial things, I mean... just look at how quickly pages on vanity gear threads fill up, while a thread on expansion design topics or game mechanics flounder and sink.

(Granted, there's a lot of principle involved in those vanity threads.)

[Damona]

Agreed on pretty much all accounts. As for the community getting hooked on relatively trivial things, I mean... just look at how quickly pages on vanity gear threads fill up, while a thread on expansion design topics or game mechanics flounder and sink.

(Granted, there's a lot of principle involved in those vanity threads.)

If you consider that it also happens ingame even and people just straight out ignore you or just reply to you casually with the usual "TAKE A BREAK M8!", it is crazy yea. I could easily turn this into a debate about money/subfee but that would just derail the topic into something far off.

The turning point for the game will be 4.0 anyways, at least for me. If they go the whole Heavensward route again like they are doing now, I'll gladly quit.
Farming dem ilvls and dem weeklys for a while is fun, but not forever.

But I admit, I am a bit jaded in that regard and even if I dont need to place my fancy FFXI nostalgia goggles all around the place and I am fully aware of the flaws this game always had. But at least after all that grind and after all those hours of finding people for stuff, I felt like I accomplished something. Not only Gearwise, also story fights that were really hard back then etc.

Also a reason why I miss the old Vault when it was not nerfed to the ground and a decent Challange. Stuff like that.
Or clearing T9/T13 unsynced like a scrub and it still felt like a "I DID ET" moment but not running through alex and... yeah uh... holding off teh illuminateh, (Loved Manipulator and Brute Justice though!) but we'll see what the final part will bring.

The one thing I will not deny though, I really loved thordan ex, even with almost 205-210 and hating it at first, it felt like I did something. One of the few rewarding things in my eyes but primal fights are always nice, even if they are a script show and rarely have any randomish moments to them.

[Shurrikhan]

The turning point for the game will be 4.0 anyways, at least for me. If they go the whole Heavensward route again like they are doing now, I'll gladly quit.

The one thing I will not deny though, I really loved thordan ex, even with almost 205-210 and hating it at first, it felt like I did something. One of the few rewarding things in my eyes but primal fights are always nice, even if they are a script show and rarely have any randomish moments to them.

If 4.0 is another rehash, I'll probably switch to about a 50% membership, appearing just before patch and disappearing just after Ex primal farms, and gradually fade from there.

Just because of all the skilled players who were farming for Tidal Mirrors over DF at one point, Levi Ex really claimed that place for me. Losing GL3 only once in that fight just due to people both keeping up the pace and respecting my "please leave us Monks the last punch on the marked spume" was an amazing experience. Not that BLMing, Barding (especially co-Barding, love that), DRGing, tanking, or healing it were any less fun, actually. Just goes to show that every fight ends up at the mercy of its combatants though. Sometimes you enter, take a look each at the two BLMs and know the adds are going to be Flare ash before they can touch anyone, and neither tank moves to intercept, and sure enough, the adds are dead before they reach either BLM or the healers. Other times, you know that PLD will be going Sword main, and the whole set of triggers that might cause seem to just lay themselves out in front of you for you to play around with; anything goes, just make sure to double Regen per Conv as always, and if things go south, track tank CDs. Those little things make XIV for me. Sadly, apart from a couple good Ex roulettes, I haven't felt them in a long time. More and more the ideosycracies seem to fade, and I feel like it's due more to the fights, somehow feeling less open-ended, and reduced community experimentation than to any internal (class/job) design.

As for rose-tinted goggles, one of the funny things to me is that a lot of my complaints I'd put up on the forums back in 1.x haven't changed at all going into 2.x and now 3.2. I expected I'd be wanting more of the 'good old days', but instead it's just the exact same worries that seemed problematic then, although perhaps magnified.

[RiceisNice]

If 4.0 is another rehash, I'll probably switch to about a 50% membership, appearing just before patch and disappearing just after Ex primal farms, and gradually fade from there.
.

This is my perspective as well. The X.0 patches (expansions) are the place to set up a foundation for future updates. You can't really afford to undersell in the new content and jobs (which I feel 3.0 has done in some regards), and it doesn't leave for a very good foundation to work upon (Airships, "FC" crafting, job design, specialists, etc). And some of the cuts they made doesn't sit well with me, either in regards to the 3.x series; we have two dungeons per patch and they are the only two options for roulette. In it's place we'd get things like diadem and LoV (which fall into the same trap where it feels very rushed and doesn't leave a lot to work with).

[Shurrikhan]

This is my perspective as well. The X.0 patches (expansions) are the place to set up a foundation for future updates. You can't really afford to undersell in the new content and jobs (which I feel 3.0 has done in some regards), and it doesn't leave for a very good foundation to work upon (Airships, "FC" crafting, job design, specialists, etc). And some of the cuts they made doesn't sit well with me, either in regards to the 3.x series; we have two dungeons per patch and they are the only two options for roulette. In it's place we'd get things like diadem and LoV (which fall into the same trap where it feels very rushed and doesn't leave a lot to work with).

About that whole Expert roulette issue, I've been wondering what would happen if they just, instead of using a single worthwhile roulette, would just rescale the rewards (essentially a bit more than a current content encounter of the same expected clear time) for 3 additional dungeons, 2 additional trials, and 1 additional raid, per day, where you can collect 3 further daily bonuses total (now closer to Ex rl for the given dungeons), maximized by doing one of each category (dungeon/trial/raid), complete with a further reward multiplier for going min ilvl sync, the decision for which can be made via a group vote even after entering or after each boss. Poof, we get to see old content (more often) even when not grinding out relics. And it took a whole lot less flavor text to bring back than the dungeoning steps of the anima weapon.

If you want to make FFXIV to be accessible with not too much time commitment (some players, me included can attest to only having about 1-2 hours to play during the game's peak hours) having to require to do more than one roulette (especially as a dps) is a bit of a turn off in that regard.The current tomestone reward structure is fine imo.

My thought there was that it'd be optimal to have choices, but not so many that you're just shooting into the dark for elusive queue times, and variance. If any of these dungeons would, prior to finishing off your bonus, give as much as Ex rl, it's not like you're going to be spending more time doing dailies per week, anyways. When capped, you're capped. Just due to shit luck in Midas normal, I'm usually capped off 2 Experts. None if I do any Feast. And that's still doable with 60 minutes per day.

What I'd like is for the words 'Expert' and 'Roulette' to be reflective of what they typically imply. The dungeons are far from demanding anymore than the bare minimum of the players, even when newly released, and you can't honestly consider two possible outcomes to be a roulette.

I'd be fine with that as well.

[Deuce]

If you consider that it also happens ingame even and people just straight out ignore you or just reply to you casually with the usual "TAKE A BREAK M8!", it is crazy yea. I could easily turn this into a debate about money/subfee but that would just derail the topic into something far off.

I applaud you for voicing your concerns about the game. Unfortunately, the official forums, particularly the general discussion section is rife with sycophants and people who turn a blind eye to this game's many flaws. While they cite evidence of people who are happy with the game and deny, deny, deny any flaws that people try to bring forward, I can do just the opposite.

Since 3.0 has launched, I can point you to dozens of players whom I know for a fact played from 2.0-3.0 or even 1.0-3.0 have quit this game for these very reasons listed in this thread. Is it anecdotal? Sure, but when I can personally point to dozens, not one, not two, but dozens of players that quit who had been subscribed every month from 2.0-3.0 there is a problem. When I am in multiple linkshells whose activity has been decimated since 3.0 launch there is an issue. If my own FC and the few linkshells I am in that are still active have become revolving doors of players quitting and newer people joining there is something wrong. This growing dissatisfaction is unprecedented behavior in the history of this game since 2.0 launch.

As of patch 3.25 many of these players have yet to come back and even refuse to come back unless SE starts taking a different approach to endgame, which will most likely never come. Several of them are hoping that 4.0 will make those changes. Sadly, I'm not going to hold my breath. This first expansion has already demonstrated the limited scope (3.0 Relic) and poor decision making (Lord of Verminion) of the development team, as well as provided us with plenty of examples of their desire to continue with tired methods, 2 linear hard mode dungeons every patch, etc.

Regrettably, I'm not sure at what point philosophies changed between 1.17+ and 2.0 to create this situation where SE felt the need to cater to the lowest common denominator. Undeniably a desire to increase subscriptions, which is an admirable goal. Unfortunately, to say that nothing of value was lost in this endeavor and that it is not having a negative impact on the game is living in a place of denial. Players have become tired of a lot of content that is admittedly from a gameplay standpoint lacking in creativity, an accusation I do not make lightly. The most inspiring content in 3.0 that we have received is probably Ravana EX, Thordan EX, Sephirot EX, and Alexander Savage as well as Diadem's concept, which in my view was poorly executed. Much of this content is only played by a fraction of the playerbase when it's new. We also rarely see these gameplay mechanics added to new dungeons either, which is a shame.

Square Enix and Yoshida may choose to continue down this road and that is their choice. However, as a consumer looking from the outside I have to say that the longer these philosophies continue the fountain of new and naive players will begin to run dry. The game will be healthy for many years to come, but it is hard not to see that there is a lot of potential for this game to go from being a good MMO to being great. I just hope that a new "WoW" doesn't come out in the next two years otherwise SE may have the rug swept out from underneath them.

Lastly, if you want to look for something more concrete as evidence that this game is bleeding subscribers at an alarming rate, then you have to look no further than increased occurrences of free login campaigns, particularly since the launch of 3.0. These login campaigns are likely a direct result of dropping subscriptions. It is a common tactic used by businesses in an attempt to bring back old customers. The problem is that if everything remains static there is a slim chance that they decide to become a customer again.