A mid-core content for mid-core players.

[Vieilocean]

It looks like another version of Diadem (Hard) but no flying and no gathering. ^^;

If the only differences you have seen are "no flying" and "no gathering", it means you didn't read the whole post. I hope you wanna say that instead of Diadem there had to be this content.

[Vieilocean]

The start could be like a short version of the combat part, and no 50 hour preparation part.But then it'd more go into different segments where you need a few specific classes per path to know their job, and the others can just mindlessly zerg, which seems to be the main idea behind Mid-core. So for example, in 1 path you need an experienced bard and dragoon, and the rest of the party can just be any class.

The reason people won't farm 1 path, is because different paths drop gear for different classes
Maybe there is a certain level progression in gear, but thats not always a bad thing, because if you don't offer gear, but something like mats/mounts/pets, people will stop doing it the moment they get their item. Plus not everyone can even use the rewards, if you were to offer special crafting mats, cause not everyone does crafting or gathering.

On this we have a pretty different opinion about how a player should face a content. I believe people should play my content (midcore) mainly for the challenge, I put aesthetics rewards only as a bonus; if you put ilev progress in it, it's like you oblige people to do that content, not for try to challenge themself but only for put a +1 on their gear.

However, in the last Live Letter Yoshida spoke about "Treasure Hunting Dungeons", I don't think it will be a midcore content cause he said that it will be difficult as the "treasure maps", but it seems a solid base for a midcore content, and has also parts of your idea, like the 3 paths thing

[Vidrian]

On this we have a pretty different opinion about how a player should face a content. I believe people should play my content (midcore) mainly for the challenge, I put aesthetics rewards only as a bonus; if you put ilev progress in it, it's like you oblige people to do that content, not for try to challenge themself but only for put a +1 on their gear.

However, in the last Live Letter Yoshida spoke about "Treasure Hunting Dungeons", I don't think it will be a midcore content cause he said that it will be difficult as the "treasure maps", but it seems a solid base for a midcore content, and has also parts of your idea, like the 3 paths thing

Unfortunately I have seen there is a LOT less interest from players in dungeons without the gear or something else you can actively link or show. Because the whole 'I like a challenge' is an attitude i see in every game, but only, only, with those who do the hardest content each patch.

[Vieilocean]

Unfortunately I have seen there is a LOT less interest from players in dungeons without the gear or something else you can actively link or show. Because the whole 'I like a challenge' is an attitude i see in every game, but only, only, with those who do the hardest content each patch.

That's for sure. The new generation of mmo players only cares about rewards, most gain with the least pain --> Fun = Rewards. However I proposed a content that it's good for me and for people like me, and also maybe bring back a little the old school mmo philosophy. I hope you're one of us

[Vidrian]

That's for sure. The new generation of mmo players only cares about rewards, most gain with the least pain --> Fun = Rewards. However I proposed a content that it's good for me and for people like me, and also maybe bring back a little the old school mmo philosophy. I hope you're one of us

I'd do it. But I don't like statics because I always want to meet new people. And I'm afraid without actual rewards, few will do this after the first week of just trying it out for the sake of 'new content'. And then its back to statics or hours of queue because of the impopularity because of.. you guessed it... the lack of rewards

[Vieilocean]

I'd do it. But I don't like statics because I always want to meet new people. And I'm afraid without actual rewards, few will do this after the first week of just trying it out for the sake of 'new content'. And then its back to statics or hours of queue because of the impopularity because of.. you guessed it... the lack of rewards

As I said hundred times, this content IS and MUST BE pug-able, it only pushes the basic mechanics (dodge, aggro, dps priority, etc.). For the reward part : a unique armor+weapon set (only glamour, but a very good one like a relic armor) it will be more then enough for me.

[Ashkendor]

As I said hundred times, this content IS and MUST BE pug-able, it only pushes the basic mechanics (dodge, aggro, dps priority, etc.). For the reward part : a unique armor+weapon set (only glamour, but a very good one like a relic armor) it will be more then enough for me.

Content ending in a difficult boss that boots you out completely after a single wipe is by nature not going to be puggable, though.

Add to that the fact that your rewards are glamour pieces and well... yeah. Dead on arrival.

[Vieilocean]

Content ending in a difficult boss that boots you out completely after a single wipe is by nature not going to be puggable, though.

I never said that my content is perfect, I also asked for suggestions and other ideas for a different content from expert dungeons and trials. However the 70% or more of replies on this thread are "DOA", but without any idea or suggestions. And then before replying read the whole thread, because I said like 1000 times that you do not need the clear to have rewards, the last boss is solely for glory, and after months when all people know the startegy, it can be cleared with an organized PUG-party, obviously not a DF pug-party. I don't really comprehend why so many people wanna a sure clear for every single content. Do people have some kind of strange complex or what?

Add to that the fact that your rewards are glamour pieces and well... yeah. Dead on arrival.

On this is better for everyone if I do not reply.

[Ashkendor]

I never said that my content is perfect, I also asked for suggestions and other ideas for a different content from expert dungeons and trials. However the 70% or more of replies on this thread are "DOA", but without any idea or suggestions. And then before replying read the whole thread, because I said like 1000 times that you do not need the clear to have rewards, the last boss is solely for glory, and after months when all people know the startegy, it can be cleared with an organized PUG-party, obviously not a DF pug-party. I don't really comprehend why so many people wanna a sure clear for every single content. Do people have some kind of strange complex or nobody has read completely this thread?

Farming doesn't actually work this way, though. Even if you put together a team of 8 people that can you know can clear the content, often there's small differences in strategy that can lead to a couple of wipes before you get everything worked out. The fact that the dungeon makes you start completely over from the beginning makes even a single misstep catastrophic to not only the run but the entire group. I dunno about you, but if I went to do content like this and after hours of slogging through trash the group wiped to something stupid at the boss rendering my entry fee effectively wasted, I'd just bail. The fact that there are rewards for killing trash is immaterial to me as anyone can go into content and kill trash, even if it's gimmicky trash that's more organized than usual. I don't typically go into a dungeon to do the first boss and then leave. The only time I would is if I'm farming some particular glamour piece, and honestly in 2 years in this game I've done this exactly once.

As far as suggestions go, you honestly haven't seemed very receptive toward input from the beginning so why would we? You stomp in here to vehemently defend your idea every single time you reply. Why would we bother making suggestions on how to change it when you can't even accept basic criticism without being aggressive in your replies?

On this is better for everyone if I do not reply.

The fact that you have glamour items as its only reward limits its appeal from the get-go. I know plenty of midcore to hardcore raiders that don't even bother glamouring their characters; they just go around with their equipment looking however because they're only interested in progression. So automatically, you eliminate them as people that would be interested in the content. Why would they go bother doing the content if there's no reward in it that interests them? If you make the glamour items too hard to get, then people will simply use other items. If the same items drop from the trash as from the bosses, people won't even bother trying to clear it. They'll just go in, nuke trash, and then leave. Tome rewards aren't very helpful either as it would probably be faster and more efficient to just farm tomes from content that doesn't charge you an entry fee in the very currency you're trying to farm.

[Kallera]

I think if Midas normal was turned into a larger dungeon, instead of just a pittance of mobs before the boss, that can serve as midcore content. they are already suggesting expanding the normal dungeon can work given the way they cut it down during savage to just the boss.

if you are looking for something more lasting, you have to think outside the box of what we currently have for activities, like xi's Campaign or 1.0s hamlet system. This is what can make diadem appealing, given some tweaks to it. Unfortunately players are in a state that craves efficiency over their own enjoyment. Like feeding an existing addiction in the hopes of a familiar high that's further and further away.

I love the punishment ideas. People keep thinking worse case scenario full wipe everytime. But the OP even mentioned phoenix down use.

We do need a use for raising items and status effect cures.