People are deliberately ruining the story for others

[Duuude007]

If you want to argue in favour of the very redundant option of using the Party Finder so much, then why can't people who actually want speed runs be the ones to set up premade farming parties that way just like they do for every other piece of content in the game?

They can and do. And that's kind of the point. When people can't have their special expectations met in a completely randomized party former, they form their own party. And the planet keeps spinning.

If you have a problem with how a party majority wants to progress, you can protest within reason, but disruptions are against EULA, so ultimately you have 3 other options: decide to suck it up, negotiate a compromise, or leave.

This applies to any party, with any group of people. Its called being pragmatic.

[Blacksail]

Really depresses me seeing new people getting left behind just because they want to experience the story as its happening.. Being one of the people that did this content late and had it ruined in exactly the same way.. It really irks me hearing this "watch in inn room" crap over and over again.. It is not the same thing..

Being able to watch the cutscenes as they happen is something every new player to the dungeon deserves to have people just wait a few minutes for.. we're supposed to support our fellow players and do what we can to help.. Or is this not what MMO's are anymore?

[Duuude007]

I probably read the OP and skipped the rest before posting this opinion.

If you had been reading, we are telling them the best options to have their niche wishes fulfilled. not at the inn. Please don't push the reset button on this conversation.

[Zari]

Really depresses me seeing new people getting left behind just because they want to experience the story as its happening.. Being one of the people that did this content late and had it ruined in exactly the same way.. It really irks me hearing this "watch in inn room" crap over and over again.. It is not the same thing..

Being able to watch the cutscenes as they happen is something every new player to the dungeon deserves to have people just wait a few minutes for.. we're supposed to support our fellow players and do what we can to help.. Or is this not what MMO's are anymore?

The problem is when people have run the dungeon many times they dont want to just sit there doing nothing for a total of 30+ minutes

The best ideas are either:
1. Get a group of friends/FC mates or a PF together that is willing to sit through the cutscenes
2. Watch the scenes as the party goes ahead and does stuff
3. Skip and watch the scenes later at the inn

[Morningstar1337]

The problem is when people have run the dungeon many times they dont want to just sit there doing nothing for a total of 30+ minutes

I see that brought up a little bit on this thread and it has me wondering if referencing the mobs to say ilevel 95-115 would be best if that is the really the crux of the problem as opposes to the tomestone per minuet ratio.

[Zari]

I see that brought up a little bit on this thread and it has me wondering if referencing the mobs to say ilevel 95-115 would be best if that is the really the crux of the problem as opposes to the tomestone per minuet ratio.

What do the mobs and ilvl have to do with anything? I was talking about how much time the cutscenes take out of the run. Even SE admitted it was a mistake and it is why they didn't do that for the Aetherochemical Research Facility in HW

[Morningstar1337]

What do the mobs and ilvl have to do with anything? I was talking about how much time the cutscenes take out of the run. Even SE admitted it was a mistake and it is why they didn't do that for the Aetherochemical Research Facility in HW

The ieda is mainly to ensure the rest of the party have soemthing to do while players are watching cutscenes. And it relies on the possibility that players want something to do during scenes as opposed to just wanting tomes ASAP, (which seems to be the actual reason for this rift)

[Haprimac]

I was just doing Thordan normal yesterday on my elezen alt for the first time and wanted to watch the cutscene. The moment the cutscene is over I see a person's been emote-spamming slap on me and whining about how the cutscene takes longer than the fight. At least I had a little bit more patient people in the lvl 60 dungeon prior to Thordan. The tank was clearly annoyed with his roulette but still went with it. Nobody explained tactics, but I didn't expect them to nor did I need them as it was my second lvl 60 character.

I can completely understand the frustration of stretching a 10minute instance to an hour because of cutscenes (Castrum+Praetorium), but when players can't wait less than five minutes for a first timer to watch a trial's cutscene without getting salty about it... Yeah, I can't say I expect this game's community to get less toxic anytime soon.

[Knahli]

They can and do. And that's kind of the point. When people can't have their special expectations met in a completely randomized party former, they form their own party. And the planet keeps spinning.

If you have a problem with how a party majority wants to progress, you can protest within reason, but disruptions are against EULA, so ultimately you have 3 other options: decide to suck it up, negotiate a compromise, or leave.

This applies to any party, with any group of people. Its called being pragmatic.

No, it's called being obtuse. Why are you so aggressively against the suggestion that new players have something implemented for them that allows them to experience the two dungeons as was intended? There are no "special" expectations here. That was the intended standard. You however, are holding them, a group of oblivious participants to a new set of dungeons, to the same standard one would expect of high level players who are experienced with the game and the dungeons in question. The only reasons those roulettes exist are so that the new players aren't waiting in impossible queues that can only be filled up by fellow new players at the same point in the questline. This game has the story and lore at it's core and a lot of people do enjoy it and do take it very seriously. There is nothing unreasonable about expecting some form of fix to be applied to a particular design that the devs and playerbase alike unanimously agree was ill-thought out.

I simply don't understand your argument. Are you that offended about another roulette cluttering up your DF or are you afraid of some 'Slippery Slope' fallacy? You are presenting no good reason whatsoever against my attempt to find some compromise that benefits both parties and allows them to experience the actual runs themselves as intended. Again, I am not suggesting my idea is flawless nor the most ideal solution imaginable, but you have yet to offer any reasonable argument as to why it's a bad idea. Your entire philosophy seems equatable to saying something like the Hall of the Novice was a bad feature and waste of time because "new players should simply learn to play the same way everyone else did, without any ~*~*hand-holding*~*~ ".

[Ashkendor]

You however, are holding them, a group of oblivious participants to a new set of dungeons, to the same standard one would expect of high level players who are experienced with the game and the dungeons in question.

No, most people aren't holding them to the same standard actually. I know I'd be pretty pissed if a veteran to the game decided to just afk through the entire dungeon and I'd probably kick them, whereas a new player I don't mind if they watch the cutscenes instead of participating. I honestly hope when 4.0 rolls around that they either get rid of these dungeons entirely or rework them somehow. I can see what they were aiming for but unfortunately it just doesn't stand the test of time. I don't think there's been a single week that's gone by without a thread about them, so it's obviously a huge issue that needs to be addressed. The thing is, I also think it should be addressed in an efficient way so as to minimize dev time spent on it.