4v4 or 8v8, which do you prefer?

[jonbo]

Okay but say you wanted SE to focus on one version of the Feast, would you prefer the 4v4 or 8v8?

That's a tough choice. I really want both parts of ranked 4's to succeed, but I would probably have to pick 8v8 since it seems like it's something that more people can enjoy.

[Neuflune]

Solo 4s. I find it intriguing that some people don't even use PvP skills at all. Helping a first timer or PvP newbie is nice, and getting to work with different kinds of people drowns away the boredom of PvE. I don't mind losing but I always give it my best even if the other party members are like fish out of water; it makes winning all the more awesome.

[Februs]

I find it intriguing that some people don't even use PvP skills at all

Unfortunately, some people just don't have PvP skills. One of the problems with new people being allowed to join up in ranked matches is that they're under ranked. Having a low rank means no AP points to spend on skills, which means they can't use them. A lot of inexperienced PvP'ers also neglect their hotbar customization options, so even if they have PvP skills to use, they don't have them readily available on their hotbars. They also might simply not know when the best time to use those skills is.

It's a tough problem, honestly. I've been slotted with a few groups in which one or two people are completely new, and it really is a handicap. I can understand why some players don't want new people to be able to get into ranked matches. That said, I also understand that queue's would be negatively effected if they weren't. It's one of those issues in which there's really no "best way" to deal with it.

[RiceisNice]

Unfortunately, some people just don't have PvP skills. One of the problems with new people being allowed to join up in ranked matches is that they're under ranked. Having a low rank means no AP points to spend on skills, which means they can't use them. A lot of inexperienced PvP'ers also neglect their hotbar customization options, so even if they have PvP skills to use, they don't have them readily available on their hotbars. They also might simply not know when the best time to use those skills is.

You don't need to invest any points to use PvP skills. You have access to all of them even at rank 1. Only way you'd get a game where people don't use PvP skills is if they completely do not know that they have it, or choose not to use it.

[Februs]

You don't need to invest any points to use PvP skills. You have access to all of them even at rank 1. Only way you'd get a game where people don't use PvP skills is if they completely do not know that they have it, or choose not to use it.

That's true. I wasn't being clear. However, the baseline PvP skills you have access to at Rank 1 do not compare to those that are buffed with AP points.

At rank 1, you have them at maximum CD and with the least potency of effect. That's hardly more useful than not having them at all, and you suffer a TREMENDOUS disadvantage over a Rank 50 player who has kitted out at least 3 of their PvP skills to maximum effect. For example, at maximum rank, Full Swing gets double it's baseline effect for an additional 5 seconds and can be used 30 seconds sooner than a Rank 1 Full Swing. That's a huge difference that can make or break the match if it's being used efficiently.

Rank can be a big handicap on the party if they don't have their skills above level one.

[RiceisNice]

That's true. I wasn't being clear. However, the baseline PvP skills you have access to at Rank 1 do not compare to those that are buffed with AP points.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a tremendous (dis)advantage, let alone "hardly better than not having them at all". You generally don't know what the other team even has and I typically assume they have the best setup possible. They're either using the skills or they aren't. Abilities like full swing, axe kick and the like are hardly anything to scoff at, even if it's untraited.

[Februs]

You generally don't know what the other team even has and I typically assume they have the best setup possible.

Hope for the best; prepare for the worst, right? That's a fine motto to bring into any competitive setting; unfortunately, you can't really prepare for the worst in a party of 4 where you have no control over the other 3 players in the group. An un-traited Full Swing is definitely not something to slouch at, but it still doesn't compare to a full traited Full Swing with double the effect at a higher frequency and longer duration, especially in a game mode where the pace of the battle can be established early by the first kill.

Regardless, I'm not interested in restricting queues for unranked players or anything like that. I'm just saying that I can understand why someone would get frustrated when the teammates they get shafted with at random don't have or don't use their PvP skills, because they do make a big difference in how well your team can potentially preform.

[RiceisNice]

Hope for the best; prepare for the worst, right? That's a fine motto to bring into any competitive setting; unfortunately, you can't really prepare for the worst in a party of 4 where you have no control over the other 3 players in the group. An un-traited Full Swing is definitely not something to slouch at, but it still doesn't compare to a full traited Full Swing with double the effect at a higher frequency and longer duration, especially in a game mode where the pace of the battle can be established early by the first kill.

Yeah, I'm not going to argue that it's pretty shitty if your party doesn't know from left or right, or grasp basic awareness in a pvp setting. The entire design of solo queue goes against competitive play, down to the match making.

[Cynric]

snip.

I think there isn't enough information inside the game about the usage of PVP skills, or really anywhere to be honest. A lot of my PVE friends who wanted to get into PVP didn't even realize there were PVP actions, nor did they know how to put them on their bars.

If people were using them but using them badly, they'd still be at least using them. You can sort of work with that, but lots of players seem to flat out not use them much.

As far as I know there aren't a lot of resources for PVP itself either. A lot of it seems to be learn as you go, I wish we had something like the bot and tutorial modes League has to help newer players learn how to PVP before stepping into rated mode.

[Synestra]

A lot of my PVE friends who wanted to get into PVP didn't even realize there were PVP actions, nor did they know how to put them on their bars.

I just lost all hope i had for humanity.......